Hair loss news first:
Very busy past month in the hair loss world.
Update: Dr. Neal Walker just presented for the final (third) time this month on June 22, 2016, this time at the JMP Securities Life Sciences Conference in New York. Two clear POSITIVE statements on JAK inhibitors and AGA:
Mr. Walker: “We do know that systemic JAK inhibitors do not work in this (=AGA) disorder, but topical does.”
Investor question: “So it would work for both types of alopecia:”
Mr. Walker: “Yes.”
— Allergan starts phase 2A clinical trials for Setipiprant this month. Study completion date is set as September 2017. They are going to be recruiting all over the US for volunteers.
— I am disappointed that in my last blog post, despite over 350 comments, there was essentially zero discussion of the two most salient points that I made:
- Commentator “nasa_rs”‘ blast from the past and its relevancy if any to JAK inhibitors works for both AA and AGA).
- Androgenetic Alopecia (AGA) being classified as an immune system problem in Daphne Zohar’s presentation slide on Follica (enlargeable slide is here under “Tracksterdam’s post). Yet, the same company’s co-founder Dr. Cotsarelis claimed to CNN in 2014 that AGA was not an immune system problem so JAK inhibitors were unlikely to work. The exact words in the CNN article: “Cotsarelis was adamant about it because male pattern baldness isn’t related to the immune system.“
— An interesting new interview with Dr. Takashi Tsuji. Not too much on hair, but nevertheless worth a read. Key part:
Interviewer question: “Speaking of hair loss, it was recently reported that you are working with a private company to development a treatment for using regenerative medicine to regrow hair. Will this be available soon?”
Dr. Tsuji’s answer: “I think it will. We have developed technology to grow hair follicles using stem cells, as hair follicles are one of the few organs where we always have stem cells ready. We hope to be able to start clinical trials in the next few years so that the treatment can move into the clinic.”
Having a mathematics background, I am biased and was pleased to read two quotes from Dr Tsuji: “Biological phenomena are governed by mathematics” and “I think that probably all of biology can be explained by math.”
— I hate to give Donald Trump’s hair any more coverage than has already been given by the media for years, but this new 10 page (!) article is pretty spectacular in its depth. The best ever analysis of Trump’s hair. I learnt a new hair loss industry term: “microcylinder intervention.” The 25th floor in Trump Tower is apparently where all the hair action has been taking place for years.
— A new privately-held company named RiverTown Therapeutics claims to have a proprietary topical product called RT1640 that regrows hair and also darkens gray and white hair. They claim to have tested the product in seven humans so far. Way too few to garner any confidence, and the company does not seem to have a website as yet.
If the company’s CEO David Weinstein ever changes his Linkedin photo and suddenly has dark hair, I will follow the company more closely. The three agents that comprise RT1640 are supposedly very safe and together they promote “the reanimation of hair follicles through the recruitment and differentiation of follicular stem cells, including melanocyte stem cells.”
— New study from the UK on β-catenin signaling and hair follicle regeneration during wound healing.
— New study from China titled “Self-assembling peptide hydrogel scaffolds support stem cell-based hair follicle regeneration.” Bit above my level of full understanding, but we have several expert readers.
— I have covered Dr. Kevin McElwee on this blog before. It seems like his lab at The University of British Columbia in Canada (plus others) might be doing some hair research for a new company named Avagenesis.
— Increasing rumors that Prince William is finally considering getting a hair transplant.
— US swimming superstar Katie Ledecky has been in the news a lot lately due to the approaching 2016 Rio Olympics. Her hairline is a hot topic of discussion online and recently Katie said “I have such short hair that they think I’m a little boy” in an interesting interview.
— A real life Rapunzel. Dashik Gubanova and her crazy long hair.
— Bulgarian soccer/football player Dimitar Berbatov gets a great hair transplant.
— Ending on a sad note. A really tragic hair transplant related death. Be very careful when you go abroad for low-cost hair transplants.
And now on to medical items of interest:
— An artificial heart for 555 days in a backpack prior to finally getting a heart transplant! And the guy played basketball with it. More here.
— A story that some stroke patients were walking again after stem cell therapy at Stanford caused a lot of excitement recently, but some scientists remain skeptical.
— After all the hoopla surrounding the crazy Italian Dr. Sergio Canavero and his full body transplant (inaccurately called a head transplant) ambition, we now have similar plans emanating from China.
— More improvements in bionic hands. Mr. Hugh Herr will be pleased.
— Baby-making in the lab (instead of via sex) and eugenics. No longer far fetched.
— BBC Panaroma — Gene Editing. YouTube video is now removed from the US.
333 thoughts on “A Busy Month in the World of Hair”
“Androgenetic Alopecia (AGA) being classified as an immune system problem in Daphne Zohar’s presentation slide on Follica. Yet, the same company’s co-founder Dr. Cotsarelis claimed to CNN in 2014 that AGA was not an immune system problem so JAK inhibitors were unlikely to work. ”
These differing pieces of information around Follica are a concern. They make me wonder who exactly is writing these presentations up and what motives they might have.
Another recent PureTech presentation stated that Follica’s method will be capable of yielding over 100 new hairs per cm2.
On the face of it that sounds extremely promising, to the point where if it were true it would be approaching a cure for some.
However, Follica’s lead researcher Dr. Cotsarelis has never stated any such a figure. In fact, in previous interviews and talks he has given in the past 2 years, he has been more pessimistic and said that a full cure was still many years away. Does that sound like somebody who has come up with a treatment that offers better density than existing hair transplants?
There seems to be a conflict between what PureTech says and what Dr. Cotsatelis has said. Only the latter’s really matters since he is the expert in this new technique – not Daphne Zohar.
Other medical item of interest:
Hi admin, Hi everybody
I sent the clinicaltrials link for the futur study of oral setipiprant on androgenic alopecia. I am really disappointed about that. We know thanks to Cotsarelis that there is a link between PDG2 and androgenic alopecia since 2012.
Cotsarelis supposed in 2012 that a treatment like setipirant could be avaible to heal MPB in 2 years. ( so 2014 from his interview )
We are now in 2016 and the study with oral setipiprant did not even start yet !!
Why do you think guys ?
Thanks Jason for your article.
Do you think it talks about jak inhibitors as stem cell therapy ?
I came across someone a few years back that swore that taking a high dosage of benadryl reversed his hair loss. I thought the guy was nuts but maybe the anti-inflammatory mechanism played a role… not sure if there is any correlation with what we have seen with JAK inhibition.
Regarding Chemistry Rx jak topical cream :
i msgd them on fb and this is their reply :
Good morning ,
The JAK inhibitor cream has a very safe side effect profile. We have no received any reports from our patients about any serious side effects. We do not have results photos to share with anyone because that would infringe on a patient’s privacy.
what do u think guys ?
Did you ask if this was used for Androgenic Alopecia? NOT AA?
Don’t you need a prescription to get it?
I posted this in the last blog entry but it got buried so here it is again. ChemistryRX is a compounding pharmacy. The cream is topical tofacitinib (spelling) used for AA, prescribed by a dermatologist. Cost is $330 for 30g, applied twice daily, not sure how long of a supply that is – a month or two? Someone with money, health insurance and an open minded dermatologist needs to get this prescribed ASAP so we can get some anecdotal reports for AGA.
Any dermatologists on the site care to write a script? :)
@hlscc, if its not a scam its certainly worth a try. Whats the price for the JAK cream?
its scam for sure.. what kind of product is on the market giving a solution for MPB and nobody knows about it? cmon guys.. ( i think they know about the JAK and they’re playing with it )
Still waiting for their reply regarding cost and if it’s used for AGA
Don’t you need a prescription to get it anyway?
guys we are doomed for the rest 5 to 7 years there is no hope except there is a cure based in natural incridients .
@yoda, im afraid your right:-( JAK will hopefully bring us something worth waiting for but alas…so much frustration the mext many yrs while we can slowly watch our hair and good looks go down the drain…
hope we can use the topical earlier than that just like they are doing for AA …
Woman with full beard.
Some guys would be jealous.
If I had that kind of beard I would gladly do a BHT procedure.
It appears the football (soccer) player still had the bulk of his hair and only had to have the frontal portion rebuilt.
and the best he can do is a fluffed up “flick” of hair… I see this all the time. I call it “Combover 2.0”
You can make it look OKAY (really, just okay) in a photo if you have perfect lighting, no wind, and well-planned out angles. In real life, you just look like a bald guy desperately clinging to what little you have left…
But remember that people who dont suffer from hairloss see only hair on head. They dont examine evry forehead and hairline. Nw2-2.5 with no bald spots=not bald.
Friends already have a lot of treatment now . Histogen, Follica, Brotzu, kelopesia, repricel.. in 2018 , , will NW7 NW0 one . Friends of being negative , happy is the solution very soon. Hair unwritten friends, can protect a lifetime of hair . ( Miracle lotion , Cellgance lotion , Ru lotion and minoxidil hair you protect your lifetime ) The End of Hair Loss and Balding by 2020 :)
Have been following this blog for a few months now.
Admin – a many thanks to you for this blog – I look forward to seeing a new publication on here – brightens my day!
The following as a boon to the speculation.
Regarding Dr. Cots being adamant that this is not an immune system related issue and that being inconsistent with the publication from Daphne – could well be that the publication included something it should not have. You can believe that if I have discovered how to grow hair in areas affected by AGA – I am going to keep it close to the chest until I can get it out to market before my competitors. These guys have to protect their IP. You see the same behaviour when the experimental guys asked questions about methodology and so forth – they got very little.
Really Good News. You cant ask the price?
:@susana they still didnt reply
A guy has advanced this theory Hairlosstalk :
“There will never be a drug that will recover the lost hair after the follicle has been inactive for several years . If the follicle is dead for some hair cycles, it is dead for good , all researchers seem to show (even Brotzu puts a limit of five years from its seemingly miraculous potion …) ”
This is not the first time I hear that kind of comment . There are even those who think the skin eventually heal some point.
If this is true , for someone who has a big thick crown, he still has as solution the graft and maybe cloning ( by the way, RepliCel is dead according to some ), but for a guy like me nothing more , that’s scary!
What do you think?
I am completely bald since one month … If it’s true, this is the end for me?
Can’t respond to the theory, but where did you hear the Replicel was dead? They’ve been quiet, but they still plan on beginning trials in both Japan and Germany by the end of the year. Let’s not spread lies here.
But this may be false. Sorry, I will pay attention to my words not rependre falsehoods . Sorry.
I think as long as you still have at least some hairs on the occiput, a future cloning technique such as Tsuji’s should still work for you. Even if your donor area is not thick, they could still clone/multiply those hair germs to repopulate the rest of the head.
I myself wonder if cloned hairs would grow thick like those of an adolescent, or whether they would inherit the damaged characteristics of the donor hair. I would guess that would start anew, just like when an animal is cloned (Dolly the sheep) it started life again as a healthy baby.
But even if the cloned hairs were to grow thin, they should still be able to give you a full head – unless they flat out denies your request for treatment, but I would imagine they would do everything to accommodate their patients’ wishes so long as the patient knew that the cloned hairs might be on the thin side.
I hope for good news from Tsuji labs soon. Cloning will be the ultimate cure and Tsuji labs seem way ahead of everyone in that development.
I HAVE NO HAIR since on month. If the theory is true , are there still hope for me? Is this the end for me?
Do you believe in this theory?
I don’t know what’s the cause of your hair loss but medications could cause problems like nutrient malabsorption and Vitamin B12 is one of them. There’s a video about this matter https://youtu.be/yqtp7jF-uyY
Have you done tests for this? Serum B12 test and also urine MMA test.
Replicel is postponing trials to 2017 or 18. I just heard that over on hair loss talk. They had some chart up with trial timelines. Either way I never really had any hope in them. There stock dropped a lot too.
Replicel is a dud imo.
That Japanese chart said IPS cells – isn’t that Tsuji’s work? I think replicel uses derma cup cells only. It would make more sense if the chart was referring to Tsuji as Riken is funded in part by the Japanese government and alao Dr. Tsuji has said that he hopes to start clinical trials by 2020.
Could it be that this timeline is about the trials in Germany in 2017 / 2018 ?
Meaning that the clinical trials in Japan are still in 2016?
The lack of communication from Replicel itself is …
I believe Histogen will be our only option. It might finally be the cure to baldness forever. I really hope it is, I don’t want anyone else to suffer the way we did.
Histogen and Replicel are the way forward.
Histogen and Replicel treatments are worthless and ineffective jokes. Really don’t get your hopes up for them.
Our only options are: Tsuji, maybe Follica and maybe Jaks.
If we could solve this just to prevent the future hl people from knowing this pain it would be awesome.
Tsuji Labs clinical trials begin before 2020. In a few years we will have many more best and most treatment options. It is obvious.
http://hair-gel.net/ This in a few years will be a good thing for people with MPB.
-Activating β-catenin signaling in CD133-positive dermal papilla cells increases hair inductivity.
New scientific paper with adipose-derived stem cells (ASCs). It will be the next year the next treatment in hair loss clinics. And of couse Histogen (HSC) and…maybe…maybe Follica and others. People are moving on…
Assembling Composite Dermal Papilla Spheres with Adipose-derived Stem Cells to Enhance Hair Follicle Induction.
Guys, do you think if follica can create new hair follicles they will be completely normal hairs and not fall out sooner than other hairs? It wouldn’t be very good if the new hairs eventually fall out like minoxidil hairs or whatever.
Also, follica claims they have achieved follicle neogenesis, something they say no-one has done before. But they also say their method has been demonstrates by the third party Indian dermarolling+minox study. So did the Indian study achieve neogenenis too or what?
omg replicel sucks lol really? they should not even disgrace themselves with their own late time lines. It makes them look rally dumb.
I just hope follica isn’t relying on minoxidil as part of its new treatment protocol.
Hey Tom I hope it’s a mix lotion or topical and not just Rogaine. That would really blow because Rogaine ain’t doing jack for me. Plus if you have been on Rogaine for over 2 years it already reached its max effectiveness. The only thing I can think of is that when he wounds the scalp Rogaine or whatever topical he uses will trigger some neogenisis. Even it only produces Indian study results it’s still better than nothing. Plus I don’t know anyone who could replicate the Indian study derma rolling results. Only one Greek guy got good results rolling and adding a bunch of topicals
Are the Indian study results an example of follicle neogenesis or just reawakening of follicles? What about what the Greek guy got, is that neogenesis?
That Dr. Olle guy of Follica seems to thinks they are the first ones to have achieved this milestone in human patients.
I haven’t seen the Greek guys pic but the few pics of the Indian study the new hairs looked fairly wispy. I hope Maybe they were reawakened follicles and not neogenesis.
Just hoping to contribute to the recent discussions here.
(1) Regarding Cotsarelis and Follica and the skin immune system.
I do not think Puretech’s classification of Follica as an “immune system” company necessarily means that they see AGA as an immune system problem. I think it means that they classify their solution (i.e. “targeted cutaneous perturbation”) as one that ultimately involves the immune system (“[Fgf9] draws a very clear link between tissue regeneration and the skin immune system,” Olle says. “It opens the way to therapeutically intervene in humans with the [wounding] approach.” — http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2013/06/03/hair-raising-follica-study-could-point-to-baldness-therapy/). The fact that humans don’t normally regenerate hairs after wounding stems, in part, from the fact that our immune systems are different from the immune systems of mice. But the immune system may not be implicated at all in AGA (or it may only become a factor post-miniaturization). So I don’t think Follica is being hypocritical here.
(2) Regarding the use of JAK inhibitors to treat AGA.
Aside from the fact that Aclaris decided to purchase Vixen and raise ~20M dollars to develop a new topical for AGA, I don’t see too many other reasons to think that Dr. Christiano’s study would be applicable to our condition. I was hoping someone might be able to fill me in.
Dr. Christiano’s mouse models all used normal mice with hairs in telogen. Those mice were bound to eventually exit telogen naturally. All the JAK inhibitors did was speed up the transition from telogen to anagen. But that isn’t the problem at all in AGA. Our hairs are not bound to exit telogen — they are permanently stuck in telogen due to a panoply of genetic factors we don’t fully understand. In fact, her study showed that hairs in a certain state of telogen were not affected by the JAK inhibitors. They had to wait until the hairs exited that state of telogen (something our hair follicles will never do by themselves) and entered a later state of telogen before the hairs were receptive to the JAK inhibitors.
Furthermore, the most poignant Cotsarelis dissent is found here (http://www.dddmag.com/article/2015/11/two-drugs%E2%80%94fda-approved-arthritis-and-blood-disorders%E2%80%94may-help-fight-baldness), not the statements he made in 2014 (which do not directly relate to Dr. Christiano’s most recent findings). In this interview, he states that many compounds produce the same effect as JAK inhibitors on C57/B6 mice (those used in Dr. Christiano’s study). I did some searching and it looks like Bimatoprost, Minoxidil, and a host of other drugs that don’t have a massive effect on AGA all have the same capacity as the JAK inhibitors (with maybe only a slightly slower rate of growth). And so I wonder what, if anything, differentiates Dr. Christiano’s findings from these other findings that did not yield truly effective treatments for MPB.
Hopefully the compounded off-label trials that Dr. Neal Walker alluded to have good success (and they keep us updated soon!). I just don’t know yet how the science matches up.
Again, just trying to stimulate conversation / get these random thoughts off my chest. Thanks for a good blog.
“Our hairs are not bound to exit telogen — they are permanently stuck in telogen”
Is that true? I looked into it and couldn’t find a definitive source. Even completely bald scalp has follicles producing microscopic hairs. Isn’t it more likely to be the case that miniaturized hairs still cycle, only with an insufficiently long growth phase to reach a visible size?
Does anyone here exfoliate their scalp?
Scrub scalp with salt 2/3 times a week, sometimes with oil. See if a ton of vellus hairs sprouting up and density definitely increased, not getting excited about it because I doubt it means anything but wanted to try.
My thinking was 1) will “unclog” scalp a bit, maybe help removing any DHT inducing residue and 2) using iodized salt to support localised energy metabolism by providing iodine. Can’t hurt, costs nothing, why not
Btw also been doing detumescence…..maybe why I’m noticing thngs?!
As far as JAK inhibitors and Aclaris goes, if they are still working on a delivery method then how were they already able to test on somebody and know that it does indeed for on AGA?
*indeed work on AGA
Matt or someone with medical omniscience background, im really hoping you can help me out. I want to try prp but I want to make sure I do it right. I do have access to needles etc. Can anyone tell me, when I draw the blood from my arm am I supposed to use a vial with anticoagulant? Is there a specific anticoagulant since im injecting the blood (prp) back into my body? I dont want to inject the wrong substance and hurt my self. Any help would be appreciated!! Thanks guys
dude tom dont be stupid…. it needs to be done by skilled people and also prp has no proof of working
Funny how no one is commenting about Seti. For a while every forum was quiet however more and more members throughout have been reporting very good results. Ranging from stabalizing loss, thickening and slight regrowth.. Any thoughts. I wish there was a compound similar to this now that could be obtained through prescription rather than having to group by it from a shady entity and then having a pharmacy test it for purity. What a pain in the ass. Cet and distilled has worked for me as far as stabalization and slight regrowth.
TM30089. You’re welcome.
Admin you kick ass!! Individuals like yourself are part of the cure!!! Thanks for shinning a light in this darkness my friend!!
Topical Diclofenac 3% Gel for Actinic Keratosis May Induce Terminal Hair in Male Androgenetic Alopecia: A Report of Three Cases
I thought this was interesting:
1) support for prostaglandin hypothesis
2) support for notion that follicles always maintain the ability to grow hair
I had prp done and it helped NONE. it actually seemed to increase my loss.
Another interesting part of Dr. Tsuji’s interview is that he says he will be focusing on non-life threatening organs such as hair and teeth. I think this is huge because Tsuji’s work is obviously much bigger than simply hair, it’s about all aspects of the body. But to hear he is focusing on hair first is very reassuring in my opinion because it will not only solve the problem of hair loss, but also be the first step to solving much bigger issues.
BTW, I have asked this question to a couple hair loss experts and HT surgeons in real life and nobody has ever been able to give a decent answer.
How come that when I look around at males at work above 30/40
males among my friends above 30/40
males in my family above 30/40,
so in total these are more than 1000 people
I only see
1) Dark haired dudes with full head
2) Grey haired dudes with full head
3) Bald/balding dudes
In other words:
Where are the full head (ash) blonde and red guys after 30/40? My conclusion: they all are bald already, are grey already, or have the horseshoe already and shave it.
Okay, maybe it’s a weird question, I must admit, but at least there should be some decent explanation for this. BTW North-West Europe is flooded with young blonde and red haired males, yeah, untill the time they enter their 30s.
Blonde guys with straight hair bald younger. They tend to have less course hair which seems to be more dht sensitive, gets greasier faster and is usually straight. I.e. mine. FML.
I would like to get some feedback and suggestions based on the findings of Xaser94 and Paul Pheonix mentioned before.
Very basically it seems very clear that hair neogenesis happen with wound healing . Possibly, this neogenesis can be better if we discovery some specific compound to help the follicle to restart or the regenerate.
Since this path seems to me the most close in terms of time , it would be importnat to share and assess here a mix of findings and top cases . One question:
To grow some new hairs, after all this scientific literature , what could be the best (safe) compound ( apart from minoxidil) to be applied after Dermarolling sessions? This could be very useful to manage the problem for all the people with thinning hairs , at least until a more definite cure is assessed forever.
Thanks for any suggestion and knowledge sharing.
@homerjsimpson, great find. We could actually just try this out for ourselves and see if it works. One of us just have to get a prescription for the 3 % gel…
This won’t work as diclofenac is a cox inhibitor, like asprin etc. etc
Guys IPS cells refers to Tsuji NOT Shiseido.
What happen with replicel?
the facebook fanpage is dead since march!
no more posts and no more answers
very very strange…
I remember reading somewhere the Replicel just fired its social media person to cut costs.
Also, is it really that unusual for a biotech company to go silent? It happens so often that I don’t know if it’s because that is just in industry standard or all their pipeline drugs are crap.
I think it’s safe to say they’ll bite the dust. Their CEO has gone AWOL and it’s telling. They have practically done away with most of their workforce and that’s an ominous sign. Oh, and their stock has got absolutely obliterated, worth about zilch.
Another Aderans me thinks
Prp alone won’t do a thing… Prp + Acell give better results you can check vids on youtube
” We are uncertain about what Angelo Christiano uses for her product. As for your other questions, we recommend you speak with your doctor about what treatment options you have. We are not medical doctors, and cannot give you treatment advice.
If your doctor has specific questions on how to write for the Jak inhibitor creams or other medications, they can call us to get more information.
For the amount and price, it varies depending on each patient’s condition how long a certain amount will last ”
Chemistry Rx reply regarding their topical jak cream
After asking them which drug did they use, will it work for aga and price
and the amount (%) of JAK in their solution
I mean can you ask them the amount (%) of JAK that is used in their solution
2% in a liposomal base, it costs $11/gram, search my posts for a link to source. I’ve posted this multiple times, this comment system could really use some kind of notification when someone replies.
Of course the 2% is for alopecia areata, we will have to wait until they trial it for AGA to see if that’s the optimal % for AGA.
If this blog is on wordpress, the admin can add disqus quite easily. It would be better for users and gives the admin more functionality/control than what he has now.
I second that. Disqus is great.
guys if replicel CEO has left the company then i can strongly assume this product will have almost 0 effectiveness on AGA. In fact wont even make it to the market. this is very useful piece of information
Replicel was not that important anymore. Shiseido was.
Assuming all goes well in Allergan’s phase 2A clinical trials for Setipiprant this month, any one have any idea when we might be able to purchase this product (without any group buys or from random sellers online)?
This phase 2 completes Sept 2017. If they do a phase 2b and phase 3 you are looking 3 more years. Probably 2020. I’m hoping samumed starts phase 3 soon. Hopefully have that sometime in late 2017 or 18.
There was a huge comment I tried to upload onto the previous post but it never went through! It concerned setiprepant and some other new clinical trials…?
I posted it this past Saturday…
No idea. If you had too many links in there or curse words or used a new computer/IP/username/email to post, it might have gone to the spam folder and then gotten deleted if I did not see it in there in time.
Yes there were multiple links, but language was professional. I’ll retype it this weekend
Mjones, yes I did. You’ll have to skim through the previous post
Hi Phil you never answered my question about when you started minox and when you started adding tea tree oil and rice bran? How long were you using Rogaine before adding tea tree and rice bran or did you start them all the same time?
Maybe this PDF will be interesting. We really need a new treatment more effective than current treatments.
Maybe Breezula will be available in 2017/2018. NOT WITH FDA APPROVAL YET.
Could be formulation for acne use in male pattern baldness?
i see the pdf
The expected launching date is 2021
Can we get it in 2018????
@Paul, cool pdf but this also looks to be several years away:/ Im sick and tired at this waiting game. Still considering trying 0.5 mg Fin…
@Spanky. They know that Finasteride has very limited effectiveness and side effects that make you doubt to take a drug like that. I think it’s time to have something better than Propecia and the best way to let them know it is. Loud and clear. WE DON’T LIKE FINASTERIDE.
Lol, “still considering” trying Fin.
I wish I was in your position where I was lucky enough to still be “considering” Fin. I’ve been TAKING it for the past year, all 1.25 mg of it (yes even more than the usual dose) and it DOESN’T WORK for me. How great is that. What if that happens to you? And you’re still playing around wasting your time to find out.
Now I am “considering” RU and CPA and estrogen and all this other far more dangerous BS, because my hair is so far down the toilet. If you haven’t even tried Fin yet then you aren’t serious about treating hair loss.
BDD can you please explain in detail your cet and distilled water regimen? Every time I put cet on my scalp my scalp would always feel uncomfortable and definite increase in loss. So im intrigued by your comment.
FARHAN, yes trying prp on myself is rather stupid, but im frustrated and feel desperate. I cant use fin or minox. I had prp done 1.5 years ago and it helped a little but the resukts faded fast. I am on a budget so I cant afford to keep going back to the doctor. If I can do it myself once a month then I have a shot of slow in things down. This is my only option and im tired of the disrespect I get from people.
dude TOM we all are in the same boat but it doesn’t mean we act like that …. look what happened to that korean chick who injected oil in her face to look more beautiful…she looks like rocky road bar
I would look into versapro + JAK before trying PRP at home. I don’t think it is feasible even if you wanted to do it.
Tom I will drop a comment on my reg tomorrow for sure. I just saw your post and will answer just super tired and don’t have the mental energy.. Somebody get me a modafinil lol. Nite
Sorry Tom business owner and things are crazy.. But i would like to help.. May i ask what vehicle u were using with cet? I used distilled water and followed up with emu oil. I had moderate results as far as regrowth.. But im definitely stable
ive always stated that AGA is autoimmune and always advocated that big pharma should look into the itching and associate dandruff. Jak will work and I wonder why no one is trying the Chinese version. They were all eager about all the other compounds and obsessed with finding the delivery vehicle.
Desmond84 gave us vesapro and China has tofa easily accessible. Why has no on tried it?
Christopher01 is not reliable and I have my suspension that he is actually Christiano
Is True that replicel ceo is out? Where you se that News?
And why are people saying seti trial is within a month? They havent even started collecting trial participants
replicel people have been apologizing and breaking deadlines for the last what? 8 years? lol.. If your going to say your going to do something, do it.
It would have been more responsible to say we don’t know if or when we Replicel will be able to phase 2 study.
“RepliCel Life Sciences Inc (OTCMKTS:REPCF) has declined 62.05% since November 11, 2015 and is downtrending. It has underperformed by 61.87% the S&P500.”
This is what procrastination looks like kids.. Lee Buckler and the gang probably thought it was their utensils they planned on marketing that made them so valuable… nope… it was RCH01 and ya blew it.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbVdyPZiOLM
You know they are only spending money in R&D and not making any money yet. Why would the stock not decrease exactly? You do not have any finance background obviously…
What about Thorn Medical snd their place in the Bahamas? They said male pattern baldness would be a thing of the past! Anybody have any updates?
maybe admin can try for an interview
I trust Tsuji labs, however growing a 1cm2 batch of hairs on a mouse is going to be very different to growing tens of thousands of hairs on a human scalp. It’s like they built a 1 foot tall pyramid and they now need to build the pyramid at Giza. Will they be able to make that big leap by 2020?
zero chance. they are in no rush.
sorry Englishis not my mother tangue .. First I’m new here as a commenter but I’m on this fourm in the daily basis.Thank you Admin for this fourm, and your updates about researches and upcoming treatment, and thank you for bringing hope for us balds community.
I wish you all the hair guys
CRISPR is reminding me very much of the movie Gattaca…kinda terrifying if we start having designer babies for the wealthy…a world with only perfect people would be…boring. Also thanks for sharing the story of the guy dying from anesthetic allergic reaction…I have surgery in a couple weeks and this wont be on my mind at all now…THANKS.
Actually it would be great. No one would have to live a life of being ugly, rejected and made fun of ever again. And there is a wide span covering the word “attractive”. Perfect is also relative, don’t forget.
@egghead still no updates from thorn?
thorn is a scam guys ask them to send you the before after pictures
Hey admin hey friends .
I am looking this blog for months now I have the same problems as all the people here. I want people to say that we need to found an organization and with donorships to collect money and do hour research and find a solution. All the companies do it because of the profit we have the actual motivation to work and to found the “cure”. A mass is better than a person.
I agree with you bant but FDA regulation doesn’t help anyway we need five years of clinical trials to collect data .but we can try to make something to push the governments make the rules different .admin think about something this blog has the power to change thinks.
This is what that CEO said lately;
“We are going to develop a topical JAK inhibitor we know that a systemic JAK inhibitor doesn’t work in this indication. And there is actually a pretty good reason for that. You can’t
achieve the right concentration… When you think about the drug going through the superficial dermal plexus, it can’t migrate up to the hair follicle bulge. So in AA it works because it works at the hair follicle bulb which is deeper down and more accessible through systemic circulation. Drugs don’t normally migrate up, so you have through the opposite way and go topically through the
hair follicle, and we have actually shown this through pre-clinical models. ”
This is kinda almost conclusive that they only say this because of the pre-clinical models (mice) and that there is no indication of any JAK inhibitor growing any hair on AGA. I’m going to retract my earlier challenge and going to give you $500 straight if this works better than minoxidil. You don’t have to give out anything :). Jup my opinion is this strong. Isn’t it unbelievable that I’m so confident? Well truth is I will keep my word but you will lose this one. I’m in a non-bias position while people in his position whether it’s for self-interest or company interest will talk from a bias position (attract funding, hype interest etc).
Look at what he says.. Think about how ridiculous illogical it is, and borderline stupid. Two days earlier before he said that I made this post actually;
First of all the distance between the bulb and bulge is extremely small, especially in a miniaturized hair follicle. More importantly systemic JAK Inhibitors work for Vitiligo and Vitiligo concentrates itself in the outermost superficial layers of the skin. So wait… I guess the drugs systemically actually do concentrate itself to even the outermost layers of the skin when taken systemically, and around the bulb as evidenced in AA, but not at the bulge? Which is a mere minimum distance of the bulb anyway and lower than where Vitiligo is exerting it’s effects? LOL. Had to break it to you guys. But I’ll say this to you all; JAK inhibitors are going to do JAK shit. I don’t they will even modulate hair follicle cycling to be honest, contrary to cyclosporine or tacromilus. And yes I hate to bring this news, but it’s that illogical that even by not looking at the pharmacokinetics of current JAK inhibitors you should understand why this is pure bullsh*t what comes out of his mouth.
Physiologically, there is a lot of space between the bulge and the bulb. Seems like you have bias there. Stop crying just because you were not yet shown pictures of JAKs growing hair on people. They have support for their theory, which is why they were able to raise quite a bit of money in a short period of time. People don’t invest millions of dollars without being shown data. Do you think Walker is that great of a talker where he speaks to investors and they say, “He is 15 million dollars. I like you!” Dr. Neal Walker seems to be staking his entire reputation on this. Based on the science provided by you, which is basically none and deep cynicism, I am going to side with Matt and Nasa. They have presented research, as well as many prominent examples of why JAKs should work from a biological perspective. All we seem to get from you that has any relative basis at all is.. Well Cots thinks… by now.. who really cares what Cots thinks? Dude has done nothing but spew venom for 20 years, and has yet to produce a single viable product. Cots had to start his own company because he doesn’t seem to meet the standard quota that he would have to meet at a university, which is that you must provide results every so often for your work ;) Cots seems to be less of a hair scientists and more of a hair science critic. Just kind of sits there, waiting for other people to do stuff so that he can tell other people how he is awesome because he discovered pgd2 over a decade ago..
you need a life…
@swoop…the “reply” button should say who your directing comments at, but I guess I’ll just throw it out front from now on.
Admin can you approve my other post? It might have gone to the spam folder!
Yup was in the spam folder. Approved now.
hope elon musk get involved into this hair loss industry and bring us a product that work.
for me he cured well his MPB problem. i don’t know how but he did it. and i don’t think a hair transplant can make a hair density like elon had. still mystery.
Talk to me when you have as much money as Musk.. then maybe you can hide the issue… All I need to know about HT is Lebron James.. You can see his scar, and his hair still doesn’t look right.. that guy has more money than God and was probably referred to the best HT specialist in the country.. still couldn’t save him.
His looks awful. Hadn’t noticed the scar though. I know a lot of barbers do intricate weaves for black guys so I thought he had that, or some combination of concealer on it. Either way, most African Americans don’t get as good of results with transplants because of how curly the hairs are. He really should just shave it and embrace the bald/beard combo but he’s too insecure. The best basketball player on the planet and a guy who will undoubtedly join Michael Jordan as a billionaire is too insecure to shave his head!!! God we are screwed.
Elon just got a very good transplant plus added some concealers or a mini weave.
Replicel never had anything substantial. No pics over 8 years, constantly postponing, no new developments etc. I never believed in them. Not sure how this effects sisheido?
Thorne probably just an advanced prp ht mix. Or complete scam. They went super quiet.
Still looking forward to SM, histogen, follica, follicum etc
Stop using Cet. It is a Cox inhibitor and you will continue to lose your hair!
You want cheap safe options?
You could try
1ml castor oil internally ED
Micronized sucralfate cream ED
1ml Stemox topical ED
As so check your shampoo for salicyic acid as it is also a cox inhibitor which is bad for your hair.
Don’t give up
Cyclooxygenase inhibitor is bad for your hair? Salicylic acid is a beta-hydroxy acid that exfoliates the skin and acts as a mild anti microbial. Whereas acetyl salicylic acid is a cox inhibitor which inhibits prostaglandin production and acts as an anti inflammatory.
Thanks, regularly update.
I agree with Bant.
Hair loss problem is one of the most embarrassing things.
So many people actually suffer from this problem, but could not say ” I am suffering hair loss”.
The masses look down people who have hair loss and worrying about hair loss. So, we may be socially vulnerable in two ways.
Sorry, bad my English.
The funny thing is “the masses” that you describe suffer from hair loss. It is as common as having acne as a kid. Really, it sucks, but it is very common. It is part of getting old. It is rare to see a 40 year old man outside of Hollywood with a great head of hair. Probably 2 out of 10.
Can’t believe people still talk about replicel and histogen lol.
If Tsuji takes his sweet time and Follica bring out nothing we are screwed.
Dont forget about brotzu.
Don’t think Brontzu will cause any regrowth – despite what the good Doctor says.
i have been reading your comments for a while now.
And i think that you should start some treatments i wouldn’t go for Fin because it scares the hell out of me. but try Minox at least.
Im sure that JAK have a promising future, but let’s be realistic here its gona take time.
If you lose your hair fast like me we will be bald by the time it arrives
Wassim hop on Propecia my man. If you are waiting for jak you will be bald by the time it comes out. Try 1mg brand name Propecia. It will most likely save your hair for 5 to 10 years. Just try it, if you get sides then stop. If you do nothing then don’t complain in 3 years when something comes out but is only useful for nw3,4 to nw1 people.
admin because i don’t want to criticize any friend in the blog i would express my thoughts.
1. Shiseido reputable cosmetic company request for trials to Japanese government invest million of dollars 3 years now is scam and still continues.
2. Aclaris pre clinical results show some evidence that jak inhibitor could work in aga investing for 2 trials 5 million dollars are also scam . +(ex researches as nasa rs show could give regrow).
why everybody are so negative and want pictures results ideas. we speak about business confidential with goal to earn money so all that companies need to take out all the results and evidence and the competitors with more resources to apply the patent and to take all the profit. i feel that some friends always need to be negative.
Well and do you now understand how terribly weak that argument for a JAK topical is, admin? It’s even laughable man. Simple reasoning tells you this already. You don’t even have to explore the pharmacokinetics of the drugs. And yes, I hate to say this. But like I said, people in some positions will inherently talk from a very bias perspective. Whether that is a CEO or a researcher. Simply to attract funding, interest, hype etc. This is logical though, right? People who don’t understand this are naive.
It also explains that indeed they only make this argument because of the rodent model and haven’t got any shred of evidence for any JAK inhibitor doing anything for AGA.
Dr walker will speak again today, hope we have any new info …
JMP Securities Life Sciences Conference
June 22, 2016, 11:30 a.m. EDT
The St. Regis, New York City
@Swoop. Finasteride and Minoxidil for life? Poor results…Minox and Finasteride it’s not a real treatment for the 21 century. And you know it. But…money is money no…? haha…do you understand…between the lines…pathetic….
@swoop, (matt, nasa)
I have been reading and lurking for about a year, this is my first comment or reply, and I don’t have anything of note to add. I don’t truly understand much if any of the science behind your positions, though I think I can determine who is well read and who isn’t.
First, I (and many others I hope) would love Matt or Nasa to respond to what seems to be in the least, a reasonable argument against the hype of JAK inhibitors for AGA.
Second, posing my own response, is it possible that AGA requires much higher concentration of JAK for efficacy than would be other wise tolerable systemically? Perhaps, AGA requires 70-100% JAK concentration to activate or reach the various pathways or cells that prompt hair growth, and systemically delivered those dosage levels would be toxic, and therefore not yet tested. You say that JAK potential in these other fields reaches the outermost layers of cell tissue, but perhaps its just note effective at the dosage levels capable systemically. I hope I am make a reasonable counter argument, I frankly have no idea.
Third, please don’t claim you are unbiased as if you are the single unemotional arbiter of all things hair loss related, everyone wants to be correct, and you clearly have stated your disposition quite loudly in my opinion. If JAK works, we will all rejoice, and while there are many appreciated advantages of being cynical, and a competent devil’s advocate which you clearly are…there is no need to ridicule those who are trying to justify why it might work. How else should they better spend there time? What are you doing to advance the cause?
i will accept the fact that the ceo need to attract funds. i will accept that he doesn’t know what he is saying. do you have evidence that will not work did you make a research . do you know how will be the medication or do you know how the jak works. because i read the researches all of them and i haven’t understand the reason i am not a dr or medical researcher.
Swoop is indeed very knowledgeable in this field and his contributions at HLT are a breath of fresh air.
I will trust his judgement, at least until these researchers / CEOs stop all the hype and produce an iota of evidence.
wtf are you talking about? Go hide in your basement with these meaningless comments and scribble them on your walls (you are crazy is what I’m saying) with absolutely no understanding of what you are talking about.
Swoop, I am not sure about the science, but for now I am more optimistic than not (60/40). Basically, Dr. Walker would have to be lying and Dr. Christiano and Dr. King would both have had to be exaggerating the potential for JAKs –> AGA too.
I do not think that Dr. King has any vested financial interests in a company selling JAKs or patents to JAKs for AGA, so why did he not just tell Spencer Kobren in that interview in 2014 that there is no hope for AGA…if the scientific logic for that argument is as simple as you suggest and the case is closed?
Swoop is bro science at its very best. “No, that Neal Walker- with years of experience in the field – has clearly no clue what he is doing but I, internet commenter guy, knows whats up.”
Has anyone else read this on brow expression and balding http://www.buism.com/hairloss.htm
A few blogs back poster Roman discussed something more interesting about the galea, muscles and 3-alpha-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase
I wonder where this poster Roman has been …
It has been too often that people post a certain theory, but then dissappear on this blog after a while. I would say, stick around and update us on your theory …
Netshed, that might be the only thing Roman was interested in (kind of like nasa_rs and JAK :-)). The Israeli company might have answers to that particular 3 alpha subject matter in case you want to e-mail them anything. I have Roman’s e-mail address and can write to him in a few months too.
Maybe I have to be more patient. He said he would discuss his findings with some PI’s or he even went to Israel, who knows :p … still in progress probably …
Oh please Ddog, you are really a mediocrity in life. You didn’t even saw my sarcasm towards using Dr. Cotsarelis in my argumentation. I’m surely not the one who is going to speak from a argumentum ad verecundiam line here. You will off course.
Secondly you have nowhere to stand on mate. Burden of proof. JAK inhibitors don’t work until proven otherwise, period. This is science. Check-mate.
And just lol @ your argumentation mate. It’s that stupid I’m not even going to respond. Have done that enough in the past.. It’s a waste of time. This blog itself relies on hope, not completely a realistic perspective eh? Why do you think nobody gives any attention about JAK inhibitors on any major forum?
Fail 100% , you’ll face it soon. Don’t worry it’s only a matter of time.
You are really nasty. What adult still uses words like stupid to win an argument? Not sure what science you provided there. Instead of responding to any of my points with scientific support, you just ridiculed and shot them down without providing any support. You sound like Donald Trump. Also, it’s not me that is failing.. I have no money invested in JAK or some strange wager with an internet admin.. lol I am merely visit this website to look at the news and see intelligent people post their theories on as to whether or not a new breakthrough may help us. I would have no problem with you, but your posts are cocksure, and your argumentation is similar to what I would hear from a high schooler. You make points without support, and you don’t acknowledge that the counter argument may have some valid, potentially interesting points that you may be missing. Yours is not a search for the truth.. I have seen your other posts. You only want to be right, and you are willing to stretch the truth, and belittle other people to do it. Like I said, you are Trump.
The guy form Kirkland….get out of here man. People are working very hard for a new treatment more effective than Minoxidil and Finasteride…
On the topic of Allergan, I read that they were starting Phase I trials for Latisse. Maybe a new drug that could be of help?
Search for Bimatoprost
@Swoop, why so aggressive? You seem very frustrated. This blog relies on hope yes, but also on interesting scientific news which is brought down to earth where ppl who are not hairloss science geeks can understand some of the often very complicated stuff. You dont believe in JAK? Who cares…
Mwah just carried away by Ddog. I shouldn’t reply to stupidity. I just shut him down hard in that message that’s all. Arguing with idiots is a waste of time. I excuse myself for that, though.
Off course it does. And I think this blog is great. I have complimented admin on his job :).
It’s a very great and clever discovery for disorders like Vitiligo and AA etc. No doubt. Excellent job. I praise them for that. Actually I have just responded to 2 people suffering from AA and loved to give them the news on HLT that they might have a viable method that really can help greatly in these conditions. Absolutely awesome.
Whatever you calling me a shill for Kirkland, at least it’s a better argument than someone calling me a member of the Illuminati, lol!
But let me tell you why I’m so grounded and fierce on this. First of all people shouldn’t be deluded by something this early.
Well it might make them hesitant on taking action while they lose their hair meanwhile. Only to realize a few years from now that they actually still don’t have any new methods to regrow their hair. At that point they start crying, cause AGA is hard to revert. Why don’t you pick up some studies yourself of AGA? I bet you will respect it tremendously, AGA is no joke. Currently damage control in AGA is everything and this might and probably still will be the central point in the coming years.
Secondly I hope to stimulate people to think about science and certain things. Don’t only look at someone and praise him for his credentials. Only beta cuckolds will do that. Try to think and reason for yourself if it makes sense. I hope to stimulate people into going into the hair research world. We need more clever minds and I’m sure they are present everywhere, also on this blog. Science should be accessible to everyone, and actually it is.
But dude, being deluded with false hope is going to bite you back man. It most probably will. I have seen it happen many times. Probably a thing of happiness = reality – expectations.
Good luck, and oh, maybe you want a free Kirkland bottle of me? ;).
Hey man! I visit the forum and always look forward to your posts. Happy you found your way here to post. I like that you’re bringing another perspective to JAK than what other people are saying online. I don’ know who or what is right but I hope you stick around.
I also hope Matt or Nasa respond to you since they seem knowledgable also but have the opposite opinion that you do.
river town looks very promising
@Swoop. Only one thing: prepare for the best expect the worst :) haha…
@Swoop: I consider there is no place for negativity … good things take time. We will soon have a new treatment… and you know it.
This shouldn’t be a place for optimism or pessimism. We should look at the facts and look at news objectively without emotion. He’s giving an objective reasoning for why he doesn’t think it won’t think based on all he has read on this issue. That isn’t negativity.
He is clearly cynical… not sure what you mean, baldings. He is not objective at all. His whole post reeks of malice. The only points he really made where that (a) no pictures have been provided (keep in mind they haven’t even had an open trial yet) and (b) the bugle and bulb are not that far apart….(really)? lol After that, he just started to trash Dr. Walker, and started branding those who have the opposite opinion as stupid. How is that something that is welcomed in this forum where we have traditionally had none of that?
Come on…he knows some “Broscience” about MPB…Not bad at all…
If you are using Propecia or Dutasteride and are having success with that, in terms of hair loss has seemed to have stopped, would Setipiprant be useless? Wouldn’t they both do the same thing?
Daniel G. Please. Update your knowleadge about MPB. Thanks. The answer is easy.
So Swoop, where should we put our hope? Breezula? Brotzu? And eventually Tsuji?
@Swoop, whats your take on upcoming treatments? What should we look forward to?
Im very much considering Fin. What puts me off besides the sexual sides is the thought of a monster shedding period and all the stories from ppl who have destroyed the hair they have left or at the very least accelerated their loss:/
Well you have things to add. Everyone can contribute. Please do actually contribute. I learn every day still from everyone. You make a valid point, the thing is… Drugs have biological activity towards a target, right? Take finasteride, it has biological activity towards 5ar1 and 5ar2. It displays stronger affinity towards to 5ar2 enzyme than towards 5ar1.
Similarly, tofactinib has affinity towards some targets..
“Tofacitinib citrate, also known as CP-690550 citrate, is a potent inhibitor of janus kinase 3 (JAK3), a hematopoetic cell-restricted tyrosine kinase involved in signal transduction regulating lymphocyte survival, proliferation, differentiation, and apoptosis. The inhibition is JAK3 specific with a selectivity 1000-fold more than other non-JAK family kinases. Besides inhibiting JAK3 (IC50 = 1 nM), tofacitinib citrate also inhibits janus kinase 2 (JAK2) and janus kinase 1 (JAK1) with 20- and 100-fold less in potency respectively. However, in a recent study, the binding affinities (Ki) of tofacitinib citrate towards JAK1, JAK2, and JAK3 were reported to be 1.6 nM, 21.7 nM, and 6.5 nM respectively.”
It is extremely potent towards JAK3, and bit less potent towards JAK2 and JAK1. The problem is that tofactinib is not the only drug of that kind on the market. There are several more and they display other properties to these targets.
Now wasn’t Aclaris going to go for JAK3 selective inhibitors? Well tofactinib is an absolute beast in affinity towards JAK3. Based on IC50=1nM I don’t see how it wouldn’t fully saturate the JAK3 enzyme.
And think about this.. Tofactinib for example works against AA and Vitiligo when taken systemically. Vitiligo takes place in more superficial layers to the skin. So it has to overthrow an enzyme and it will try to grip onto JAK3 like a anaconda first basically, before overthrowing JAK2 and JAK1. Similarly finasteride isn’t really active towards 5ar1 from the 1-100mg range. While it starts to fully saturate 5ar2 from 0.2mg pretty much as it does with 1mg.
And if we look at AA these killer T cells need to be dealt with and these compound do that by overthrowing these JAK enzymes. This picture should say you enough;
So the first it will overthrow is JAK3, being an absolute beast against that enzyme. And that also happens in Vitiligo.. So why wouldn’t the drugs concentrate around the whole hair follicle too and deal with those enzymes there too, specifically JAK3? Remember Vitiligo takes place higher than the bulge. It has too display proper biological activity towards these targets or it wouldn’t be effective in Vitiligo and AA.
And they base all of this because of a goddamn rodent model.. I mean come on. And funnily enough if you look at the rodent model it actually grew hair systemically too just slower… A more reasonable explanation for this would be that the drug builds up faster in tissue levels than when taken systemically..
@Spanky and @Lewa,
I take most hope in Replicel. To hell, with those financial speculations. A chinese guy recently invented something with his team that will probably challenge CRISPR with barely any money on his hand. What a genius.
As long as Shisheido is moving forward and is going to test this I put most faith in their method. It is most scientifically sound for me personally. Honestly, listening to them was also a relief for me. They are very well grounded and just don’t chit chat too much nonsense. Yes these delays are horrible, but sometimes unexpected things happen and harsh regulations are often the cause of this. So yes Shisheido is the thing I’m looking at. It could be big, I guess we’ll have to see.
Yeah I feel you. It can be a big step to make but you gotta think that most people take the drug without any issue and maintain their hair with it for many years.. Some are even more lucky and get cosmetic results from it
I maintained and got a HT after.. See here;
Now it’s like this;
Good times are surely coming. But don’t forget that time is ticking bro. I’m personally just a bit worried and hope that my AGA won’t go into overdrive as I have quite aggressive AGA (NW3.5 at age 24). But I’m holding up well, hope that continues!
I listened to Mr. Walker today speaking to investors. I was praying someone like you was in the audience to ask these questions.
Thank you so much for your reply. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than myself will offer a theory. I will be looking forward to reading it and learning more.
Dr Walker’s explanation was a simplification for a non-scientific audience. After all, he was presenting at in investment conference in his capacity as CEO, not to a scientific conference as a researcher. In fact he has nothing at all to do with JAK research, other than as an investor, and probably only has a superficial knowledge of it.
Furthermore the initial study (Christiano et all) states “the hair-inducing effects of JAK inhibitors in normal skin are not dependent on the activity of lymphocytes.” So I think this is all a red herring. But, the problem with swoop’s posted diagram is that it shows JAK inhibitors binding to the lymphocyte. Lymphocytes are part of the blood stream so this binding happens in the blood stream (as you’d expect with a systemic), and *not at the site of whatever the lymphocytes are attacking.* Therefore the location of the lymphocyte attack, whether its the melanocyte in vitiligo or the hair bulb in AA, isn’t necessarily representative of the location of concentrations of JAK inhibitors. That’s my critique of swoops argument as someone with no scientific education.
Thanks, Bareberryshill. Interesting post.
We should have a scientific debate between @matt and @swoop about jaks…
Oh yeah one last thing before I’m heading to the gym! Can’t edit messages here. Dr. Tsuji obviously also although that will probably take a little longer. I think he has a real chance of really accomplishing great things. I like the idea also of having lovely fresh new hair follicles on my head which are immune to AGA, I mean who wouldn’t lol :).
Peace out, talk later!
Yeah Tsuji is the real deal but I don’t get a sense of urgency from him which is discouraging.
Please forgive me for my bad bad english.
how about some nwes about Brotzus lotion.
I understand you are all pumped up because of the JAK. but Dam*, we are talking about a product that maybe will work, it will take at least 5 years and will bvery expensive. i dont say its bad, i say we should focus on more realistic things. i am only intersted in products which i can use in the short time. its all good and nice, the JAK the Tsuji and on and on… but its only Brotzu who is coming with a new product for us.
Yes, maybe its snake oil (i don’t think so), maybe its going to work amazing as he says and we all stop losing hair, and grow 5 years of hair back. most likely it will work for most, for some very good, for not that much, and for few ot at all. Some will maybe even say that it causes shedding. we don’t know.
What we do know is that its the first product thats going to be in the market in near future. I think we should be focusing on that. especially because know really knows anything about this, the timeline, pics, nothing.
so Admin, maybe some news and research on that direction?
Italian boys try to replicate the lotion. rivoluzionecapelli DOT blogspot DOT it
Do you what they are saying?
hello i am the admin of rivoluzionecapelli, when i’ll have news,i’ll write an english article.
you are welcome
Admin doesn’t make the news, he reports it. Too many people have already emailed the doctor and Fidia for an update. The response has been the same: Trials have begun and they hope to bring to market in 2017. Sorry, nothing more at the moment. Perhaps some group buys but that’s it.
Why are few people saying Histogen is a joke? On what basis do you say this on? I genuinely want some insight into why histogen might be all “talk”. Please educate me :) thanks in advance!
I think histogen and follica are the only two things we have that might work, and SM. Histogen will be a life saver for low nwds. If you are a new or 6 it might help but I don’t think it will do much. Maybe used with follica wounding then you might have a game changer. The funny thing histogen is the only company to shoe results and move to phase 3, well saying they will move to phase 3 . If they didn’t have a working treatment they wouldn’t be spending money on trials to only fail in the market place.
Nw5 or 6*
Yes thanks for the reply, as far as I know they have shown photos to support their claim. Regardless of lighting conditions of the photos, no real investor would proceed and spend money into the company if they were not convinced. I’m sure there are more photo evidence that we haven’t seen. Even dr ziering had stated that he has multiple pictures of great progress. BUT why they do not provide more supporting photos I do not know hmmm
If Follica doesn’t work as well as they say then Cotsarelis is a sadist.
If Follica does work as well as they say then Cotsarelis deserves a Noble Prize.
It’s as simple as that.
Totally agree Tom Tom! I hope it’s the Nobel prize outcome lol
Anybody here thinning much more on their right temple than the left and who are using Rogaine and Propecia? It amazes me on how fast my right temple is thinning. It’s like something out it on overdrive. Can Rogaine really destroy a hairline? Ridiculous
Just curious, I left 2 comments and they have not been approved/posted. I would like very much to be apart of the commemt community.
Shows me here in my console that u have 3 approved comments so far. Welcome!
“. People don’t invest millions of dollars without being shown data.”
So thats happen to Replicel stocks ?
If is True CEO leave the company forget there tecnology. Sheseido will Know in the next day that they Just buy a tecnology that dont work.
NEXT big it will be Histogen. The bubble is bursting….
This is F…… Situation
Well actually you see in the diagram that it binds to the epithelium as well which is the bulge area.. A hair follicle relies on mesenchymal-epithelial interaction. I mentioned that on HLT actually.
Here you have the whole picture;
I quote; “Which binds to the IFN-yR on the surface of the epithelial cell, which in turn signals via JAK1 and JAK2 to promote production of IL15..
And you can clearly see in that square part above in the diagram that that is a follicular epithelial cell. You even see there on the left part tofactinib and ruxolitinib in little letters, binding to JAK1 and JAK2. Doesn’t this only add even way more weight to my argument?
And btw.. Killer T cells can migrate out of the bloodstream and move into surrounding tissue. That’s not a problem at all for these little terminators as seen in literature.
Also last quote on this conference from that CEO 22 june, which he says something like this;
“We do know that systemic JAK inhibitors do not work in this disorder, but topical does. If you think about that it is mainly about because you can’t achieve the concentration high enough in the skin to get to the place of action, which is the hair follicle bulge, not the bulb. That’s been validated in pre-clinical models.”
Again completely referring here to the pre-clinical model. Which as many here may know, always involves animal testing. and isn’t about any human testing at all. If he had evidence in humans he would say that in a different context and speak of a clinical trial or a case report. Like he does with AA for instance. They have no evidence, they completely rely on this point on the findings on the rodent model.
Correction* around the bulge area obviously. Very little distance. I do want to add to this that only the DP is primarily vascularized with systemic circulation, and not these epithelial cells.
Yes, I see in the diagram that JAKi is also binding to the epithelial cell. I’m arguing that since “Killer T cells can migrate out of the bloodstream and move into surrounding tissue”, the fact that systemic JAKi works for vitiligo at shallow tissue depth doesn’t prove in and of itself that systemic JAKi is effective at that depth – because it could hypothetically only be working on “Killer T Cells” before they migrate to that depth. I could be wrong, but either way the statement you quoted makes the point irrelevant – because Dr Walker claims the bulb-depth JAKi concentration “isn’t high enough” to trigger hair growth, not that it isn’t present at all. Maybe the concentration is enough to treat vitiligo at that depth, who knows. I’m not qualified to say what the evidence so far made public proves or doesn’t, I just have a gut feeling, this seems different from the usual cosmetics company promotional announcements/promises/deadlines that are being thrown around in these comments.
Probably higher income + royalties for Histogen due to the skin repair product Regenica marketed by Suneva Medical.
It only says something about the finances in general. Extra money might be used for the last HSC milestones as HSC is based on the same R&D as the skin repair product.
http://buism.com/hairloss.htm nobody read?
@steve that link to that article is probably the stupidest thing I had ever read. Everyone raises there eyebrows. So in that case scalp massages are bad since you are moving her skin. Total crap article
@ Susana histogen won’t disappear. Relax. They actually have a working solution and completed phase 2. Replicel never started phase 2 and kept delaying it.
I still believe in follica, histogen and sm. These 3 will grow substantial hair, maintain and thicken existing hair
@Swoop, thank you for all your technical insight. Im not sure i understand half, but I still enjoy reading it:-) Your hair looks great in the pics. Seems like you had a VERY succesful HT. What kind of sides do you experience on Fin? Im afraid of the shedding I’ve been reading bout. I just got a mail from Hasson & Wong who told me that I can get their topical Fin here in europe. They also told me that I can use it on a specific area to see how I will respond. Dunno if its worth it or I should go for oral usage. Also been reading that 0.5 could be a good dose to start out with.
Mjones we cant have any more delays.
Friend of mine told my Hasson & wong topical is dangerous and to not use it! They use around 2-2.5mg of finasteride in their solution. It will give you sides if you’re prone to them
Follica needs to come out in 2018
100 hairs per cm2, hurray
It must be true or else they are plain out lying to the world for kicks?!
Even only 10% – 10 new strong hairs per cm2 – I will take it
But they say 100!!
Then we could all relax until Tsuji unleashes the beast
I like to always go with worst case scenario and say with follica it will be 25 cm2 of actual quality hair. That is still good if you are a nw3, maybe 4 or lower to give you a good coverage. If they can actually yield 75 cm2 of neogenic hair which is semi good quality just to fill in some added density then great but if it’s weak small baby hairs then it’s worthless. The 25cm2 would be the only thing to focus as the other hairs will be useless unless you add histogen which could make them terminal
Indeed, even 25 new terminal hairs per cm2 would still amount to a whopping 15,000 new hairs across the whole 600cm2 (approximate) surface area of the scalp.
To me it would be imperative that Follica’s topical skin perturbation (TCP) technique could be performed over the entire surface area of the scalp, not just small select areas. I’d want added density on my sides and the back, as well as on top.
But we don’t know exactly what the wounding method will entail and if only limited areas of scalp can be treated at any one time.
I always had hope for Replicel, but it seems like they passed the torch to Shiseido anyway so being concerned with their inability to work and communicate shouldn’t be too straining. I think JAK and Tsuji’s work will be the ultimate answer. For now, I would just learn to live with yourself. One day when you wake up it will be HUGE news. Great work admin on your amazing website.
Guys assuming jaks did work for aga, do you think we could take a course of jaks for a while, stop and use fin to keep the hair than grew back?
Applying a lotion all over your scalp every day for life would be a bit of an inconvenience. Moreover, the lifelong costs of using a jaks lotion would be sky high and perhaps even unaffordable for many people.
I couldn’t give less crap if I have to apply and honestly I don’t understand you people I’d much rather use a topical because then it wouldn’t mess with my whole body systemically.
I can’t even take Fin due to that reason, it grows breasts more effectively than hair (in my case). It makes sense to deliver the compounds to your scalp, that’s where the problem is , not your whole body. It would be like if you needed to pour gasoline into your car just throw it into a pool of gasoline and hope some makes it into the tank never mind the fact the whole thing might catch fire cause there is now fuel in all the areas it’s not supposed to be?
The cost should be more appropriate once this makes it mainstream however.
In the presentation from Aclaris on June 22nd a little after 22 minutes in, the investor straight up asks him if it works for “BOTH” types of alopecia AA and AGA – the answer was yes… there you go not sure why people are over-complicating this ; he clearly said it works.
Thanks tin7 ! Missed the last several minutes…updated the blog post.
Exactly. People need to sit back and let this play out. IMO It’s going to be good.
Let me give you guys a hypothetical scenario. If you were betting men, would you bet on the person who cures AGA being a regular dermatologist like Cotsarelis etc or a person WHO STUDIES THE GENES BEHIND DIFFERENT HAIR LOSS DISORDERS FOR A LIVING?? I would have to say option number two is who I’d place my money on. And that is exactly what Cristiano is. She had started where hair loss starts… The genes. Her patent is from 2012/2013. This whole topically applying a JAK inhibitor to mice has come quite a ways before the article that was released in October/November of last year. The point is, like I’ve said before, the things we in the public know now is old science to those testing in the lab. They have a vested interest to do so if the potential market is as enormous as AGA is. So it is certainly possible they’ve done case studies in AGA already and are keeping it extremely quiet. We simply don’t know yet.
And now we have the person behind studying the gene networks behind different hair loss disorders selling the IP for royalties, which will be used for AGA. And now three times the presenter of a highly valued company says this works for AGA topically as apposed to orally. I don’t know how much more we can mince this… I feel pretty good about this compared to other upcoming treatments, but this is just one mans opinion after an enormous amount of reading. Anyone can do their own research and draw there own conclusions.
@Matt, im very interested in your take on Swoops arguments against JAK, as I dont understand half of it myself:/??
I really don’t have the time to go through them all until summer school is out, but I obviously think he’s completely wrong from even some of the stuff I’ve read. He’s a bro scientist who refuses to ever give anything but minox, 5a.r. Inhibition, or hair transplants a chance. His only counter argument of “evidence” can essentially be buried with time as more evidence will come out. I am also a bro scientist. We don’t have any yet. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Cristiano is NOT a bro scientist. As stated, she studies the genes behind this and has for a very long time. She’s not just a dermatologist. This is her specialty. And has now sold off her IP which is coming up on 4 years old and pharma company for royalties, to a huge medical company who has now claimed 3 separate times that a topical JAK inhibitor works in AGA, and a systemic one does not. And has aquired JAK inhibitor production companies before christiano sold anything to them… They were talking long before this I’m sure. As Cristiano even hinted at in her interview with kobren on the BTT, she stated that “perhaps it needs to be highly concentrated in the follicle in AGA” and “we want this to hang around for a while around the follicle” (JAK inhibitors have a short half life…. Hence the reason they are developing a covalently bonded inhibitor…. It is a MUCH more powerful intermolecular force than anything tofac or ruxol could provide, which only works through charge-charge interactions and hydrogen bonding, so it should silence the targeted JAK(s) even more effectively than tofac or ruxol could). I think you all can do the math. This isn’t a “it works” like minoxidil. We’ve seen in other hair disorders a complete reversal of hair loss. Not just tufts. That’s why this is so exciting. We also have evidence of cots and his team saying this is an immune system driven disorder. I think it would only make sense that potentially resetting the immune system clock could do wonders for AGA.
Anyways, off to bed before surely getting destroyed the next couple of weeks with summer school. Nothing swoop has said has changed my opinion in the least
Hey Matt do you think this has the potential to bring back hair that has been lost for many years? Not expecting you to know…but can you guess based on the science? Follicles never die, but they say progenitor cells do die in AGA after hair loss has been going on for a while.
I have a feeling that it may still be possible? Well, i’m just basing this completely on Swiss Temples who grew some hair on his temples and noted that these were bald for almost 9 Years already. So maybe! :)
Yes, but if the hair grew back had fallen because of the DTH or other problem not related to the depletion of hair cycles , this theory still stands … no? Yes? … The administrator asks a good question. Please Matt, it is a very relevant question. I have nothing hair and i’m really scared.
William, I would just chill out about it. No one likes not having hair/losing hair. It sucks for us all. Especially the younger you are. But without doubt far better things are coming very soon. Just be patient :)
As long as there are stem cells, yes I do think it is possible. Let us not forget that there is a loss of vascularizarion in AGA. So that alone is a good reason to think that topical would be much more effective in AGA as apposed to a systemic JAK inhibitor. So if AGA is far advanced, you would not be getting nearly enough of the medicine to the follicle to do anything via the bloodstream in this particular hair loss disorder. So how do you get around this? You introduce it through the skin as a topical.
Secondly, I’d like to throw another little tidbit out there.
This is in the kidney, not the hair follicle but it is a very interesting read and ties immune system function to vitamin d. The article mentions how JAK3 knockout increases 25-Hydroxyvitamin D 1-alpha hydroxylase activity/expression. What is this thing I just mentioned?
It is the enzyme responsible for converting vitamin d3 to the bioactive (the kind the body can use) form of vitamin d3. Under functions on the right hand side of the page, some of them are “response to
Estrogen” and “positive regulator of keratinocyte differentiation”. It is also expressed in keratinocytes (what the hair shaft is ultimately made from).
Vitamin d is CRUCIAL to mitochondrial induced cellular energy. The body gets about 90% of this vitamin from the sun (uv rays). And the whole point of a “vitamin” is that the body cannot produce much of it, if at all, but needs it. Hence why they need to be introduced through external measures such as diet, or in this case the sun. So perhaps the phenotype of AGA is just the body not metabolizing vitamin d properly in the hair follicle… The result? The body kicks the hair follicles out over time to allow more sunlight to hit the skin and be synthesized, thus getting the vitamin d it needs for cellular energy ATP production in the skin of the scalp. Just a thought.
Also, one of the most down regulated genes in AGA scalp is VDR, the vitamin d receptor. And this enzyme catalyzes it’s expression per the Wikipedia page that I posted.
Thanks! I have thought of writing a post related to Vitamin D for a while, but did not know enough about the subject. Might do so now.
Matt, might a naturopathic topical be moderately effective, similar to how Saw Palmetto has been found to be useful as a 5ARi ?
nice comment Matt,
But guys how long do you think it will take to get this product for sell.
all component used for JAK are already approved by FDA ??
so they have to make phase 1 phase2 and phase 3 trial in order to sell the product?
Guys this hair loss really RUIIIIINED my life.
Besides Shanna with AA (‘the Alopecia Experiment’) …
The son of another forum member tried Xeljanz for his AA as well …
If an old bald aga guy applied topical jaks and regrew hair, I wonder what sort of hair it would be. Would it be the amount of hair he has at 10, 16, 20, 25 years old? Even non balding guys lose some hair density as they age. If jaks could truly grow back ALL hair, it should not discriminate and surely all the follicles would come back.
So we’ll see old men with child-like hair/hair density?
The problem is.. This isn’t only about the observations in AA. Remember also Vitiligo. And let’s take Psoriasis? Oral systemic JAK inhibitors show to work against that too. Check..
“Psoriasis is characterized by an abnormally excessive and rapid growth of the epidermal layer of the skin. Abnormal production of skin cells (especially during wound repair) and an overabundance of skin cells result from the sequence of pathological events in psoriasis. Skin cells are replaced every 3–5 days in psoriasis rather than the usual 28–30 days. These changes are believed to stem from the premature maturation of keratinocytes induced by an inflammatory cascade in the dermis involving dendritic cells, macrophages, and T cells (three subtypes of white blood cells). These immune cells move from the dermis to the epidermis and secrete inflammatory chemical signals”
Look at the last party; “These immune cells move from the dermis to the epidermis”.
Now epidermis.. Well I think you might know that it’s pretty much non-vascularized.. Around the same proximity where Vitiligo takes place again;
“The Epidermis does not contain blood vessels (non-vascular). It contains the pigment melanin which gives skin colour and allows the skin to tan”
This means again that these drugs to concentrate itself in or close to that proximity of that later.. So remember I’m not only talking about the observations on AA…
This is a lost cause. In any case I wonder what most of these beta-cuckolds here are doing then like Matt and Ddog. The cream is out there, boys! What are you actually waiting for? Going to wait a few years? You have a 2% cream available which is compounded. Show us the magic. Or wait, let me see the failure ;). And if that fails what will your next argument be? That tofactinib isn’t strong enough at a beastly IC50=1nM for JAK3 or that the vehicle isn’t good enough? LOL. Yes, I can smell that in advance. Excuses, always excuses and zero evidence.
Problem is every observational evidence points towards JAK inhibitors doing nothing for AGA period. The topical argument is based on a rodent model and is extremely weak. Quite frankly speaking there isn’t even any hair alteration seen in thousands of people! Imagine that. It doesn’t even seem to modulate hair follicle function anywhere on the body contrary to immunomodulatory compounds like cyclosporine A which induce hypertrhicosis in an overwhelming % of subjects.
Argumentum ad verecendiam again, same as Ddog. How cute. But what do you actually really have to show? NOTHING. That’s the funny thing. Only your hypotheses like you actually “understand” the incredible difficulty of AGA, by probably reading a few papers.
Do you know how funny that is to me? I’m asking you again where is your evidence, besides the mice? Scientific method mate. You don’t even have any observations to show me. Not even 1 single case report of a human. Because there is none! I even would wager money against this lina recta .
So wager vs me mate. I’ll give you 1/5 odds in your favor!! How much can you spare from your piggybank or your parents? Let’s do it Matt? Big talks, nothing to show. That’s in reality what you have mate. Suddenly you crumble now, huh? Or you will say that a bet is ridicilous right ;).. Yeah dude, many scientists do that or have done that in the past. A popular one would be Stephen Hawking vs Gordon Kane about the Higgs boson. So what do you say? Come on, do it for all your audience here. You have Aclaris on your site a multi million dollar company, A.M Christiano and your own opinion. The choice should be easy for you.
“Look at the last party; “These immune cells move from the dermis to the epidermis”
That’s exactly what I already said, systemic JAKi is binding to immune cells in the blood stream (as your diagram shows), and the inhibitory effect is carried with them as they move – therefore, the fact that systemic JAKi treats diseases where immune cells move outside the bloodstream (vitiligo, psoriasis) is not a valid argument about hypothetical concentrations of JAKi at those locations. Especially in conditions where immune cell action is irrelevant, for example hair growth as stated in the Christiano research. This is the same thing I said in my last post, I’m just repeating myself to make my logic as clear as possible since your reply didn’t address it.
Thank you mate. Yes, I consider my HT very successful indeed. I’m basically a norwood 1 or 1,5 now. I only suffer from very subtle side effects, nothing serious. I take 0.5mg EOD btw. Indeed you could start out with a low dosage. If you get side effects you can just quit. Educate yourself on the risks though before taking the plunge. In Japan the recommended dosage is actually 0.2mg daily. That dosage almost fully saturates the 5ar2 enzyme. That’s why you don’t see much of a difference in serum levels between taking 0.2mg daily or 1mg daily. Hair counts are in favor of 1mg but it shouldn’t make that much of a difference in most people. So starting with something like 0.5mg EOD, or 0.2mg daily is totally fine to get a feel for the drug. Hope that helps man.
Just to show you guys the ridiculousness btw as how potent tofactinib is towards JAK3…
” Finasteride has higher affinity for 5α-R type II (IC50 = 9.4 nM) versus type I (IC50 = 410 nM).”
This means that tofactinib is roughly 9x as potent in inhibiting
JAK3 as finasteride is towards inhibiting 5ar2 on the same dosage.
Now this is very roughly as pharmacokinetics go way deeper and are more complex as that, but this is a very big difference.
Now imagine that finasteride already tends to almost fully saturate 5ar2 in serum level at 0.2mg while the recommended dosage is 1mg. While tofactinib generally is given at a 5mg or 10mg dosage orally. Meaning that that dosage of tofactinib indicates that tofactinib is also meant to overthrow the JAK2 and also JAK1. Indeed simple rough calculations will give you this in comparison with finasteride.
But remember tofactinib displays that IC50=1nM towards JAK3. Ridicilously potent.
At the end of the day, most people are pretty open minded and don’t care from which researcher or company the solution for our problems come from, me included. We just want a decent fix which is affordable and safe, of course.
So please leave the ‘fighting’ (or betting) over stuff to the researchers as the scientific community is always about opposed hypotheses and mindsets. Nobody will ever be able to get all noses pointing to the same direction.
Thats okay, but show some mutual respect as is shown overall in the academic community.
As I have bald spots, grey hair, SebDermatitis, and extreme itch/inflammation I would be an idiot if I wouldn’t try any treatment that looks legit. I have a good feeling JAKs will work against the itch (inflammation/immune response), the dermatitis (like psoriasis) and the greying (like vitiligo). As the itch and dermatitis parts are also at the balding sites, the balding issue might …
Who says I don’t show respect? I do. In fact I don’t know if you know but I have been in e-mail contact with several elite hair researchers. Even going to meet with two of them at the hair congress 2017 in Japan. They are world elite, that’s all I will say. I love to talk with them and learn from them.
I’m open for everything. But blatantly stating that JAK inhibitors work for AGA while that CEO refers clearly the last two times to a pre-clinical model is borderline ridiculous. Do you even know that people could be crushed by this? I mean perhaps instead of overestimating what these researchers/companies currently can do you should overestimate how hard AGA is to treat. Which stems from multi modal factors;
– AGA itself seems to be an incredible complex pathology. Might be irreversible at some point. It actually is irreversible in some point in some people as evidenced by the fibrosis shown in studies which leads to destruction of the HF.
– We have no proper model to go by. A rodent model is a ineffective model for AGA (every researcher will agree)
– Funding is low
– Only like ~50 hair researchers worldwide. Single labs of cancer have more scientists working on the problem than we have.
In any case you should always look at the evidence, which simply isn’t present in JAK inhibitors. Mate, even the likes of Dr. Cotsarelis talked 10~ years ago that a cure would inevitably arise. Do you think they are so sure nowadays? Nah. Lately he spoke of “customized” therapies that might work a bit more for one person than the other. Similarly I know the opinion of others. Don’t be so sure mate, it’s a very hard complex problem. AA in comparison is a laugh.
After all you do realize that we have minoxidil currently and it is the best hair growth agent? Multi million dollar companies, elite researchers anno 2016 can’t beat minoxidil. And minoxidil was even discovered by accident, how ironic…. So tell me are all those people that stupid that they can’t outperform minoxidil? Or is it maybe that we know very little of AGA itself and it seems to be a huge problem? After all… We don’t even know exactly how minoxidil works LOL.
Come on.. Anyway my last post here. Not really a place for a pur sang realist as me. I’ll stick to reading now and then. But remember what I said regarding not taking action and being overconfident in the near future for better therapies. It might just bite you in the ass.
Swoop, why is AA a laugh in comparison to AGA? Please explain the science.
Also, what does Minoxidil performance have to do with JAK inhibitors?
Finally, is your theory that… because millions of dollars have already been spent by elite companies on AGA, Dr. Walker’s company couldn’t possibly find a cure? If so, please explain the logic behind how other companies being unsuccessful affect’s Aclaris’s result.
@Swoop. More and more broscience…Hey swoop you forgot references. You’ve heard of the RefWorks program? haha…
Bye Swoop. Good Luck with side effects… You really need it.
You can also read his posts on HLT… The world does not stop after this blog. And he makes good points.
You are just buying media buzz… but you will learn, no worries.
@Name….Study…only study….Take care.
Where is the study claiming Jak works in AGA?
Swoop I hope you’re wrong in everything that you said except for your optimism for Riken :)
AA is simplistic in it’s nature. You can read the studies yourself. I just gave you a picture with a diagram in some post before. The mechanism is pretty much almost completely known. AA related disorders have been reversed many times before, even fully. These JAK inhibitors just do a way better work at it, specifically to more harsh AA related disorders like universalis and totalis. However even in the past immunomodulatory compounds like cyclosporine, tacromilus, methroxerate and even coricosteroids could reverse AA related disorders partly or fully. Again these JAK inhibitors just do it way better. Check here in the past;
Jup that isn’t through any JAK inhibitor at all. Now can you show me someone who had extreme reversal in AGA? I’ll tell you, nobody. Out of hundreds of millions of people, never ever. The only way what we have seen as Dr. Cotsarelis tells it perfectly;
“Studies and case reports of transgender operations where men become women and receive high doses of estrogen show that a scalp that was almost completely bald can have, after castration and high estrogen supplementation, a tremendous amount of hair growth.”
Furthermore there seems to be no angle. Some EGFR antagonist case reports with minimal regrowth. Three benoxaprofen case reports with minimal moderate regrowth (out of millions of people). That’s it pretty much mate.. Ohw yeah and the famous grandpa who fell into a coal fire and miraculously regrew his hair. The latter is probably most interesting of these all, which favors Follica, as after all it is a form of wounding. Oh and estrogen, but it’s extremely complex. Only these observations should tell you something. Look at it from a big picture mate.
Slick Rick, I don’t look at money at all. After all Allergan is a multi billion dollar company that dwarfs Aclaris hilariously. No contest. The worth of Aclaris to Allergan is pocket change for them. Yet they can’t outperform minoxidil either. Meanwhile a chinese guy with no money at hand delivers a method that can challenge CRISP and might induce revolutionary step in terms of gene editing. Money/credentials is nothing mate. It’s about having the right method, brains and subsequently delivering evidence. Evidence that currently lacks. Ask Elon Musk, the god himself. God I wish we had that guy actually work on this. A visionary realist who knows what can be achieved and what not. He would probably destroy this disease on a preventative angle within 10 years. Well at least he got a very nice hair transplant ;).
Eventually better treatments will arise, off course. But that doesn’t neglect the points I just mentioned. Add to this that regulations don’t work in your favor either. Many things, many years. Hell even to research particular stuff in pre-clinical models you need to wait many months for approval. Red tape slows it down so hard..
In regards, to JAK I already gave my reasons. In any case a topical of even 1% tofa will totally demolish JAK3 in your your skin. So go get it? If you want it hard enough you will get it trust me… The compounds are out there for you to grab. Studies of topical JAK inhibitors are out there and demonstrate dermal penetration. A simple google search will suffice ;).
Also one more thing. People make it sound like Aclaris relies on their AGA topical product.. Come on… They have a perfect portfolio. I concur these JAK inhibitors do display proper effectiveness against auto-immune related disorders like Vitiligo, AA related disorders, Psoriasis etc…
If their AGA topical fails then that’s not a problem at all for them. After all they will have their drugs for these other indications and the $$$ will flow freely. It’s not like they only rely on this AGA topical LOL. They won’t lose much sleep if it won’t be effective enough.
Swoop, thank you for your attempt at a rational response.
I can summarize your stance in a much quicker statement… Basically, you do not believe jak inhibitors to be effective on AGA, because you’ve not yet seen evidence that it works.
To that, I repond… duh… This is a cutting edge website where we are focused on POTENTIAL for hair loss cures, and a very preliminary announcement of a major breakthrough has us all cautiously optimistic and speculating on science for recreation and moral support. If we had complete evidence of a hair loss cure as you demand, then we would not be on this website discussing it anymore.
In summary, your negative position that jak inhibitors are not a cure due to lack of evidence has no place here. I am amazed at how many words you can use without really saying anything useful.
The day you get proof of the hair loss cure will be the day this website is no longer needed. And so, the rationale behind your negative outlook is ridiculous.
@Swoop, thank you for your 0.2 advice regarding Fin. I’ll do some more research on that dosage.
I’m starting not to like this Swoop character. Bring back nasa_rs!
They would still stand to lose much if their topical was not effective for mpb. AA and other autoimmune disorder sufferers make up a very small percentage of people with hairloss. Mpb affects like 1 out of every 3 people.
No doubt you have done your research on this topic, but I have a feeling you may be missing something. Or maybe we are. But from what I have seen, the science behind it seems to back it up. Even if only ONE person in history managed to reverse his mpb fully, it would prove it CAN be done. And it HAS been done, as you pointed out. And also like you said, no one has any idea why minox works for hairloss, which was accidentally discovered. This is a drug being formulated specifically for the disorder, so I feel like it has a much better shot.
I do think we have to be modest with our optimism however, seeing as many new “potential cures” have come and gone bringing nothing but disappointment. No one knows except the people involved, so anything you or anyone else says is pure speculation. I do think we should leave the betting and pissing contest off this site though. We are all fighting the same stupid disease and hoping for a cure. All we can do is wait, and ccontinue to try and maintain in the meantime.
Good comment on Minox. I was thinking the same thing that no one understands why it works. It just does.. kind of.
This was posted on HLT. Can you update this post to include the link and include it in your next post also?
Guys, don’t listen to Swoop. He’s a sad broscientist with nothing better to do than spend hours on this site. If he’s so smart, he’d be out there curing MPB himself. Trust Christiano and Aclaris, who has said many times that Jak works for AGA, and is investing $20 million dollars in it. Swoop, take your pessimism elsewhere.
Me sad? Life is great honestly. How can I be sad be with a rockin’ NW1 and a physique like a Greek god? Plus apparently I’m getting well paid by Kirkland ;). Don’t reflect your own emotions upon me man. Just a realist pur sang man, nothing more than that.
Peace out, brah!
I doubt it. You look like you have a fat head. lol
Haha.. I sure have a fat head :). I posted my physique actually several times before with different pictures;
You call this sort of a physique fat? You beta cuckold lol, skinny guy probably talking from his desk.
Winners are winners mate. Improve on a intellectual, physical, relationship level. I bet you ain’t very far in any of those DDog seeing how your responses were towards me. Now keep waiting and win the discussion you like to win by providing me evidence one day of JAK inhibitors regrowing those dear hair follicles, which we all love here.
Hahahhaa, you think that is ripped… please. Come on dude.. That is how I looked when I was 14. I played college ball, own a gym, and I am married. You are just a guy that spews broscience on the web. It is funny that you post photographs of yourself on message boards. What kind of narcissist are you? You think anyone cares or is impressed?
Quick question. When i was on fin i developed slight gyno en puffy nipples. Not really noticible like in your photo but looks like it.
Do you have slight gyno? If so, how did it develop?
You need to learn more about drugs and integumentary system and less “steroids” Swoop… Many patients who take Finasteride have generalized swelling caused by fluid retention. Take care about that. Only a good advice. Be careful with side effects are VERY REAL. That’s NOT A JOKE.
Paul, ever read studies which describe FFMI in natural vs steroid users? Probably not again… I’m not even at the top. My genetics don’t give me much more than this. I would say I have above average genetics though.
Generalized swelling by finasteride? You are scaremongering now, are you not? I think you mistake yourself with minoxidil which in very rare cases topically can cause fluid retention, not finasteride.
Besides, DHT doesn’t function a big role in muscle hypertrophy. 3a-HSD is abundant in muscle tissue and this metabolizes DHT to a very weak androgen.
I’m aware of the risks of finasteride furthermore completely. You think I actually believe that we have good current treatments anno 2016 (finasteride and minoxidil)? Hell no, it’s a disgrace.. I would have at least expected a very potent AR antagonist with excellent pharmacokinetic properties that displays a very favorable profile in side effects.
As you describe yourself an optimist it was logical we would have friction mate.. I’m a realist like I said.
Good luck in your life man and I hope we can all regrow our hair in the near future.
This is really my last post,
Peace out brah!
Ok now I know what is your “knowleadge”. Take care.
Thanks Ty. :) We apreciate that.
Brotzu lotion is worth waiting.
This DDog now says he looked like that when he was 14…. And he owns a gym! Hahaha. Dude. You made my week. You really did.
Not really, I’m actually very humble and helpful on the boards versus everyone. I just wanted to lure you out in a response and I achieved that. You spew nonsense mate, as evidenced in your last reply. You made yourself look like a fool by saying you looked like that when you were 14 . You really are a clown, huh.
You really are an egomaniac. Believe what you want. Do you see anyone else posting pictures of themselves on here? Do you think that is just because you are so wonderful and special? Or is it just because you are the strangest dude on the boards? 24 is really young for a HT.. I pray for you man.
Sure ;)…You called “donitello” a weird guy in Admin his last post while the guy posted a very well valid grounded message. I would never do that. Says more about you than me. That was immediately when I knew you are a joke mate.
I actually had my HT at 26 of age, I’m 27 now. But thanks don’t worry. Thanks anyway for making my week and I loved slamming you. And I only do it versus peeps like you, beta cuckold guys <3.
Peace out man!
This made your week? Lol amazing.
You made my week DDog :), you are a clown. You made me laugh many times, thanks for that.
Anyway some GOOD news guys for everyone else, all credit to that guy “Tomtom21”;
Histogen is apparently moving forward and it’s great that they do a N=330 across 3 clinical site with another trial coming in the USA.
Let’s hope that their latest data wasn’t to biased and they can replicate these datasets again with hopefully also better pictures.
Hands up boys ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ !!
Firstly to Swoop: How come you still hold out faith in Replicel/Shiseido/rch01? I thought it was clear by now that Rolf ‘trichoscanner’ Hoffman, that elusive McElwee dude and Lee “the buckmeister” Buckler were all charlatans selling their dud technology to Shiseido?
Over on hlt, someone posted a link to this Japanese ips cell research roadmap: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/attachments/1-png.40980/ . Not sure who published this info (perhaps the Japanese government?).
People have been saying that it refers to Shiseido’s work, but isn’t Shiseido’s relying on derma cup/derma papilla cells and not IPS cells? Isn’t Riken using IPS and is funded by the government?
I believe in them because the science is sound. It is hypothesized that dermal sheath cup cells repopulate the DP. I believe that fixation or replacement of DP will lead to either regrowth or somewhat immunization towards androgens. I just hope that this is indeed the case and it works out like this. Furthermore they have been very well grounded in their interviews imo. Especially the one with hellhouser on hairlosstalk.
Also autologous cell therapy like this is quite high-tech and predictions to make on this are pretty much impossible. Also let’s be honest. Drugs are a joke in a whole as you need to take them continuously. If you don’t those dear androgens start attacking your hair follicles again and you’ll be bald in no time. Therefore any drug that you take has have ideally a good side effect profile, and most drugs just don’t give that advantage right?
And injections now and then for either immunization or stability with some regrowth would be godly.. Convenient as hell and it shouldn’t give any side effects at all. I just like the idea.
You ain’t going to see IPS cell for a long time for AGA probably. They are considered as class 3 cell therapy treatments in Japan and heavily regulated, because they are risky because of cancer etc. Many research needs to go into them. Dr. Ohyama has done some research on IPS cells & hair follicle regeneration; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBDT255s8xE.
Riken (Dr. Tsuji) with their beastly high elite researchers is about combings dermal papilla cells with epithelial stem cells. from the back of your head. They basically put those 2 cells together in a Petri dish, subsequently their idea is to put them in your scalp and a new hair follicle should develop. This would be obviously the creme de la creme of therapies.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Well I hope you are right about Shiseido. I would hope it could achieve a satisfactory level of regrowth and thickens existing hair. This is what the report on “Science Zero” seemed to suggest.
So are Riken employing IPS cells in their treatment for aga or are dermal papilla cells with epithelial stem not IPS? 2020 to clinical trials already seems like a long time, but if they had to go through lengthier regulations then it would be a whole generation away and not much good for us.
Did you see that Japanese “IPS cell research Roadmap” posted on another forum? Everyone seems to assume it’s Shiseido’s work, but aren’t they working with derma cup cells? Isn’t it Riken who are state-funded who are working with IPS?
swoop dude, you’re such a insecure boy, stop holding the breath to take a picture of yourself, you’re a litte bit fat and probably getting bald (would not be here if werent so) anyway in fact of write bs wait of all the companies that are working in a better treatment.
they are not here just to make us get angry, find a cure or a better treatment in MPB is a complicate process.
Goddamn cris why did you tell this everyone? I told you to keep it secret that I’m balding fat..! No cookies for you tonight and house arrest for one week.
I do not believe anything. I only believe when you see where is being carried out clínical trial and the results are presented. If to go clinicaltrials.gov the only trial was finish without show the results.
And if the show that same pictures from the last 5 years i will enjoy and laugh a lot.
The opposite i will the first to contribute to pay the ticket to admin when the treatment is available. XD
@please stop the hatin on the Swoop…gotta love the Swoop for having scientific knowlege and sharing it with the rest of us. Whether hes right or wrong is not the point. We need different perspectives. Keep posting Swoop…
@Spanky. You are right. Swoop is welcome here. I apologize if I ever offended you Swoop. You knowleadge is better than nothing. New treatments are coming. You know that Swoop. :)
@Spanky, @Paul Phoenix,
Thanks, I appreciate that. I don’t give one JAK shit about the hate though trust me ;). In a way I can imagine how someone would be upset if I display such confidence in a “cocky” manner about a upcoming treatment like JAK’s. On the other hand if you are that confident in your own opinion you shouldn’t be influenced by me really and ignore me. And yes new treatments are coming :).
Last post now, as my fingers are starting to hurt from all the typing lol. Catch ya boys later!
You act like you know everything, yet your grammer is garbage and logic is all over the place. Not cocky, ignorant and angry is the vibe I got.
Mexico 2018 HSC
Japan 2018 RCH-01
USA 2018 Follica
I’ll start an Airline offering tours for parients
I will call it the HAirline !
I am already compiling a patients list for the first flight of Netshed HAirlines :)
Let’s respect each other on here, we are all in the same boat and sharing the same knowledge. How many people know who Gail Naughton is or what is rch01? This rollercoaster is tough on us all.
I’ll take a ticket for your airline please Netshed :) First stop Philadelphia and the Follica clinic. I want to smell the still freshly painted walls…
Interview with brotzu.
No photos unfortunately.
Skeptics always talk about the ‘hundreds’ of failed lotions that came to nothing and say sruff like “they were saying a better treatment was coming 20 years ago” etc…
But honestly, what were these lotions called that proved ineffective? What were their mechanisms of action and were they discovered accidentally by esteemed Doctors such as Dr. Brotzu?
can u translate
Lewa, Admin, etc via google translate, “we developed a lotion containing cationic liposomes carrying PGE 1, S-equol and Carnitine […] PGE1 improved microcirculation, s-equol blocked 5-α- reductase and carnitine enters the beta-oxidation of lipid chains facilitating metabolism. Since PGE1 is considered a drug, replace it with its precursor Dihomo-gamma-linoleic acid (DGLA). The results were equal if not better than PGE1. There are scientific publications reporting that in cell cultures the DGLA stimulates the production of keratin.”
It seems as if in this and in topical JAK, liposomal delivery is important to get medication to the right part of the follicle.
I did not read the article, but Not really sure how facilitation of beta-oxidation is good for you? It means that your body is using/breaking down fat to produce ATP for energy…can lead to ketone production…then possibly ketoacidosis
Phil Collins I don’t know, that’s just a translation from italian copy pasted from google. And I know nothing about the subject matter. Breaking down fat to produce ATP sounds good for you, right? But, going off what you said, the interview doesn’t actually say “facilitation of beta-oxidization.” It says carnation “ENTERS the beta-oxidization” so for all we know, it could be stopping beta oxidization. Whatever action happens via carnation “entering the beta-oxidization” results in “facilitating metabolism” which doesn’t seem like a bad thing… Again I have no idea what any of this means and I haven’t seen any reason at all to care about this “Brotzu Lotion” but at least they are good enough to list their ingredients.
Wait wait, we don’t know how/why minox works?I mean I personally don’t,but I thought we had the science behind that or am I wrong again and we do? And if the case is that we don’t, wouldn’t it be beneficial that we understand the mechanism behind it?
Minoxidil is a potent vasodilator that agonizes beta and alpha receptors in your vasculature. You take it orally and it dilates everything! The basic theory is that increased blood flow leads to greater nutrient supply to your hair.
There are theories, but no one really knows.
Uhm, I see a drug that’s out for how long now? 10years? 20years? And we don’t know why it actually works, I see why people call the hairloss industry a joke. I’ve heard that it helps blood circulation and what not but eh w/e .
I have wondered why did researcher not try to reveal the secret of Minoxidil until now.
This knowledge might be hint of hair loss cure…
Swoop nice scientific background on the hair loss stuff. Ignore the haters and keep posting any updates you know from hair loss world. One more thing you mentioned that you are a nw1..why the fk are you on a hair loss forum? When I was in my 20s, when Propecia was maintaining my solid nw1.5, I never went on these blogs. I went on when I was 19 when I started losing hair and once I hoped on Propecia and it stopped my baldness I never came back, I was out living life and having fun. I just recently came back 3 years ago at the age of 31 when I started losing ground again. Some advice bro, get off this forum and enjoy your nw1 my man:) If you are losing ground then I can understand why you are on here but if you are not then go out and enjoy life!
Haha I’ll sure do mate, thanks. Anyway I’m enjoying life really. I’m doing a 2nd study now. Working in the hospitality business (bartending) while also tutoring sometimes. Besides that I go to the gym frequently. I also still go clubbing 2-3 a month etc. But I like to stimulate my intellect too. So if that means reading studies 2 hours a day and being on these forums while being a hermit in my man cave.. Well that’s enjoyable for me too really. That might sounds strange to you I guess. Everyone is different.
Me and hair though… This dead keratin stuff which grows on our head… It’s been a battle man. I guess everyone can relate here lol. But since I started this journey hair follicle biology catched my interest and still does. Also I do have a bit of fear in the back of my head for in the future as the same might happen to me like you experiences. So I definitely like to keep an eye on future treatments. So that’s why. I hope you enjoy life too though, I bet you do!
Its nice to see newcomers express their opinions intelligently and respectfully but your combative language is anything but. Also using terms like “beta cuckold” and posting pictures of yourself would probably fit better over at the body building forums. As stated earlier you clearly have some insecurity issues as we all do, but please refrain from childish arguments. You stated that you are 27 and I find it a little sad that you cannot conduct yourself a little more maturely.
People come here as friends to discuss the roller coaster that is the world of hair loss. Life is hard enough and to have petty arguments is just unnecessary and exhausting. You may have thick hair but your skin obviously Isn’t. So I imagine you’ll retort with some derogatory comment but I really don’t care and I will not respond.
Having said that you appear to be an intelligent individual and I do look forward to more of your posts but again some civility would be appreciated.
Funny nickname dude. Well I agree. I acted very immature and should have composed myself in a more mature manner, no doubt. That being said I think you have a very disturbed image of me which doesn’t reflect as how I normally behave. Sometimes everyone gets carried away I guess. I was just being annoyed at one or two individuals and loved to shut them and hammer them down, that’s all. Nothing of insecurity here. Do I have insecurities in life though? Pretty much everyone has. I’ll be more civil though. I don’t normally talk in BB slang ;).
Lol guys, give credit where it’s due. Swoop does have a well maintained physique, assuming that is an actual picture of him. However, you also have to be suffering from some self-esteem issues if you’re that determined to prove yourself and gain the validation of a bunch of strangers on the Internet.
Something interesting I’d like to share,not aga related but rather body hair related. I’d lie if give you exact year but I think it was 2012 or 13,I had a line of hair around 8 sm long removed from my forearm with a hairclipper, after that the hair in that line specifically went into miniaturization mode and completely bald in about a year and still is to this day. Noone so far was able to give me a slight idea into how this happened and how something like that is possible. There was nothing wrong with the clipper I have used it countless times before that, it was always kept clean and it didn’t came into contact with my skin, that is as much as I recall. Interesting observation -with the application of minoxidil on the bald spot for 6months all hairloss was reversed, 5months after discontinuing minox the line is back to being slick bald.
Wow DNP! Maybe you can post that story here:
Really struggling with the question of whether to use Fin.
Aware of the statistics found in clinical trials and have read some of the known worst case scenarios.
Started to try and gather statistics. There are 3881 members on Propecia Help. Went to see what the year on year sales for Propecia were. Interestingly, I found that 2015 Propecia sales were 183 million USD worth. Has been falling year on year since, I think, at least 2011, where it was closer to 450 million USD worth.
Either everyone moved to generics or people are increasingly less willing to roll the dice…
Proscar sales are also reported as having fallen from 2011 to 2013 – cannot find any other sales figures for Proscar though.
This is not encouraging finding…
Lol. By posting that photo… What are you trying to prove and who are you trying to prove it to?
This is a hairloss forum. Do you need attention? Or has this site really gotten that bad? Anything that comes out of your mouth is now going to be immediately ignored. I suggest you post under a different name if you want to be taken seriously.
They just got the best out of him. Everybody knows not to get emotionally involved with arguments over the Internet, yet people constantly fail to do it. Swoop don’t give into dem jelly haterz xD. I for once found a lot of the information and insight very useful
Exactly mate. You get it. Was just frustrated with stupidity,, got emotional, weak of me. Should have maintained my cool. It’s very atypical of me… Only pure stupidity can lure it out. Thanks anyway… And I won’t. Having haters is always a good thing actually.
I don’t know much about jak inhibitor but I feel like they will work. For one they increase inductivity of dermal papillae cells. Which means if the topical inhibitor reached the hair follicle bulge, where the dermal papillae cells reside then it will induce hair growth. Plus, they tried the topical inhibitor on human skin, it was grafted on mice, and it induced hair growth and the onset of anagen phase. I don’t know how effective grafted human skin is on mice but I think it is significant that it increased hair growth in human skin.
The dermal papilla is at the base of the hair follicle, they don’t reside in the bulge. See here a picture for reference;
“The mean length of a scalp hair follicle is 4.16 mm.”
This is on a occipital scalp fully healthy growing anagen non-miniaturized hair follicle. Did you ever see how a miniaturized looks in the skin? Check on the right side here;
Do that little bulb? That shriveled up hair follicle? Now you can imagine at how much distance we are talking about in a miniaturized hair follicle. Probably less than 0.5mm. And remember you can see “epi” there above. That’s the epidermis. Exactly where immune disorders like Vitiligo and Psoriasis take place. Systemically the compound do exert biological activity there as displayed by the effectiveness. But not in the bulge? Haha ;).
In any case I’m fairly sure that people will be obtaining that 2% tofactinib liposomal cream. So you guys will have your answer soon if JAK inhibitors will work. Probably within 6 months.u
If tofactinib won’t work at that concentration it’s game over. I bet the next argument will be that the “vehicle is bad” or tofactinib isn’t strong enough against JAK3, but the pharmacokinetics of the compound tell a whole different story. It’s extremely potent.
hey swoop you should start applying for Aclaris or atleast tell them what you know that they don’t.
What if a high concentration is required for AGA and not for Vitiligo? The systemic route will bring just enough to treat AA and Vitiligo but not AGA while the topical will deliver a much higher concentration at the bulge.
Why everyone is making a comment of swoops picture, i mean why are you care?
Everyone is different, maybe he i a narcist, but then again why we care?
The other thing is, this forum is becoming overexcited about jak inhibitors. Noone knows if itll work or not, but at least swoop is trying to explain his thoughts with scientific knowledge than just acting with his feelings.
Its not far to attack and insult somebody just because he says something you are not agree with. The truth must not be good, then again it wont change anything to shout to the person he says the truth.
I dont make an assumption that swoop is right by saying jak wont will not work for aga, but he explains why itll not work in a rational way, and this is the truth. Even scientific evidences can later be proven that they were false, but what will persistant is that science is made by rational thinking, and this is the truth, the opportunity to prove that an idea is false.
For seeking the reality an assumption that turns out to be truth by a nonrational thinking is less valuable than a false assumption by a rational thinking. If you cant prove why youre right, and express yourself just with faith, its worthless, because noone will ever know why youre right and we cant work about this idea and make it better, and even know 100% thats right because we were not able to prove it to be false.
Why i am telling this, because its ignorance to stand against the truth, but there can be more than one truth in one time, so if you are not agree with swoop than make a scientific explanation like matt is doing, and stop to insult him and making stupid comments about how he looks like how his body looks like.
Why everyone is making a comment of swoops picture, i mean why are you care?
Everyone is different, maybe he i a narcist, but then again why we care?
The other thing is, this forum is becoming overexcited about jak inhibitors. Noone knows if itll work or not, but at least swoop is trying to explain his thoughts with scientific knowledge than just acting with his feelings,and this is the truth
Man someone just go to italy…talk with hands or do something…get that brotzu guy
I wouldn’t hold too much promise on bronzu. 90% chance if it’s not going to require a prescription and it’s not going through normal clinical trials it will be no more effective than Rogaine at best. It’s probably going to have the same effectiveness of stemoxidine. If a miracle happens and this stuff works better than Rogaine or Propecia then it won’t be approved by the fda here until it goes through trials. Just my opinion
Rule going forward : No pics of effectiveness and hair growth then it’s just all talk and scam until proven with evidence
The percentage on the JAK inhibitor varies depending on the physician that is prescribing it. We have seen anywhere from 1-5% for the JAK inhibitors depending on what the cream is being used for.
The JAK inhibitors are currently being used for a number of different conditions depending on who is prescribing it. Much like most drugs, the JAK inhibitors can be used for different medical conditions. For that particular patient it was for alopecia, but it can be prescribed for other conditions.
This is chemistry rx reply on fb, who can reach them and is willing to buy a cream?
HLSCC contacting ChemistryRX (A Compounding Pharmacy) on Facebook will accomplish nothing, because the product is prescription only. Get your DOCTOR to contact ChemistryRX about PRESCRIBING this drug…
In alopeciaworld website they mentioned that chemistry rx topical jak cream is a compound of tofacitinib/xeljanz and costs 300 $ the tube (30 mg)
Swoop, now that we all know your a 27 yearold dude telling us what the deal is about Phd scientist and what they are up to and what they are misunderstanding. I would like to congratulate you on having so many fans ie ‘baldings’ etc who think your the man with the plan. I’m sure body building puts you ahead of the Phd pack quite comfortably. Can’t wait to see you on Charley Rose. You can expect this sentiment from me about you from here on out.
i’m going to the next miami conference with hellouser to watch swoop tell all the international scientist whats up, shirtless, with his trademark yolo brad pitt swagger. show us betas where we went wrong dude. <3
Ok egghead and others, please let it go. Hopefully my next few posts will not involve JAK inhibitors:-)
just playin around
Thank you brother for the compliments. No plan here. I had my personal battle. Veni, Vici, Vidi. I have that low norwood peace of mind now.
PhD? Means nothing to me. Evidence and science does. Dr. Hsu (follicept) had better credentials than me and probably more than 99% on this blog. That didn’t stop him from thinking that he could achieve regrowth with IGF-1, which was a lost cause from the beginning. I have just read another article of a PhD scientist who thinks that DHT gets synthesized from 17b-estradiol… And he knows the real deal to hair loss. Just increase your testosterone mate!
I’m just a soldier of independent guys who are courageous, who dare to use their own brain. Dare to question. uu
Now let’s get to the evidence again shall we? After all that’s where it all boils down too. Just because you believe in a politician on his word doesn’t mean that I do.
Who is going to get this cream guys? Are you egghead? The cream is up there for grab. Do you want to stay bald or do you want to regrow your hair? I assume you take much faith on the JAK angle. I want to see it mate. Where are you waiting for?
Later Swoop <3.
Thanks for your interesting comments Swoop. In future I will try to limit the personal attacks (from both sides), although that is work that I do not really have the motivation to do seriously all day long :-(
Oh it’s you again. The Thorne Medical guy. How are they doing by the way?
They said they will be getting back with me in the next 90 days.
@Swoop how many grafts did you have when you had your HT? Also, how does the scarring look, how short can you wear your hair in the back / sides?
2835 grafts. A 0.7mm punch was used for donor extraction. This worked in my favor as my scarring is pretty much minimal to non-existent, because of the small punch size. I haven’t cut my hair real short at the back though. It’s a bit less dense that’s for sure. At a length of like 1 cm it covers it perfectly. I’ll probably go real short maybe even this year, that when I could really give you a objective view. At this point I can’t. If you want I’ll shoot a picture for you then, so you can judge for yourself. Later, Swoop.
Hehe that’s ok. I don’t care for those personal attacks. I have met many of these guys in the past, who attacked me. Follicept was probably the biggest display of this, which you are probably aware of. Hell there was also a guy who made probably 300 posts in a thread only about Allergan (bimatoprost), all speculating about their stock, facility location etc. Saying how bimatoprost was going to be the next great thing 1000%. Told him it wouldn’t outperform minoxidil and it didn’t. There are many other examples.
I’m aware that forums and a blog attracts a whole gradient of different people. It’s logical that I heat things up and some people will attack me. Like someone said here correctly, I can’t point every face to one direction. However one must understand the value of evidence and not just blatantly listening to what X person or company has to say even if it’s god himself. It’s all about evidence, not about loose talks. Primarily, this hasn’t even to do with my reasoning.
In your defense admin, I do agree that the CEO of Aclaris seems to indicate that it works for both MPB and AA, especially in the context of 22:30. Still I remain by my standpoint.
I mean didn’t the CEO of Thorn say that they will provide a stem cell cure for baldness? What’s the difference? Weren’t Aderans and Intercytex going to deliver our cure pretty much almost 100% a few years ago..?
Loannidis got famous with this paper which talks about how most research is false. It is the most cited paper in PLOS medicine;
That’s reality too. Like I said, understand that people can and often talk from a bias perspective, whether it’s for company interest or self-interest. But honestly I bet you completely concur with this. I know you do.
What I’m fairly surprised is how this is even possible on a legal level. I know pretty much nothing about legal stuff though…
I hope I made my point clear.
I agree with some of your points Swoop. However, a lot of my thoughts on this blog are based on my intuition. I do not believe anyone can truly understand the science fully, including yourself or matt or nasa. Even those who have experimented on animals and humans for many years are often confused at what is happening when it comes to hair.
At one point they said that Dutasteride was the ultimate cure for hair loss since it eliminated almost all DHT from killing hair follicles. That was as clear cut as possible per scientific thought at the time. Yet Dutasteride has not even been close to a miracle cure for most people. When I visited hair loss forums for the first time 15 years ago, it was thought that Dutasteride was the end of hair loss. Many doctors and researchers agreed with that too and it made complete scientific sense. Later on people starting finding reasons for it not making complete scientific sense!
Finally, there have been some crazy cases of hair regrowth from way too many diverse methods (e.g., an old man’s scalp getting burnt, plucking/quorum sensing, wounding, benaxoprofen, Avodart, nasa_rs’ link to 1994 study etc…) for me to reject anything outright. So there is no way I would be confident that covalently bound JAK 3 inhibitors won’t work. Much stranger things have worked for some people that initial scientific thought would deem impossible.
FYI — I find Neal Walker/Christiano/King all 10 times more believable than the Thorne people. My intuition and nothing else.
Oh that’s cool. You don’t have to reject anything. You are entitled to your own opinion. You do a great job on reporting everything, please continue. However I’m just delivering the other side of the story. Quite frankly I can tell you that I know nothing of AGA. It’s too complex for me. I would rather want to believe that I know very little and that we have much more to learn. Truthfully I know every scientist would talk in this matter in this time in frame. A We still don’t even know how minoxidil works, let alone the pathway chain of AGA.
However my reasoning on this isn’t based on AGA itself. It’s based on the drug property, and the illogical thought of the drugs not exerting their biological effect at the bulge level. While they do seem to exert their biological activity at proximity of the epidermis as seen in Vitiligo and Psoriasis. This simple reasoning totally contradicts the statement of that CEO. Furthermore I have also displayed how much of a beast tofactinib is towards JAK3. Ask any expert in pharmacokinetics, he will say the same. Remember the different itself is nihil between bulb and bulge, especially in a miniaturized hair follicle.
For instance one could hypothesize that STAT3 is an important function for hair follicle biology. I think “matt” or nasa” is so keen on this. However one can reflect upon observational evidence and can look if people have loss of function or gain of function of the STAT3 gene. Well people are walking around on earth who have these genetic faults. Interestingly they do have problems with facial and tooth development, but their hair follicles are perfectly healthy. Based on this one could already say that in hair follicle biology STAT3 doesn’t seem to play a big role. If it would, hair retardation would be shown or at least hair alteration somewhere on the body. This is a very strong argument.
Similarly one could hypothesize..
If loss of function in the VDR (vitamin D receptor) gene is important for hair follicle biology …
Yes it is, as you can see these people suffer from extreme alopecia. Therefore it most likely plays a prominent role.
Other example is loss of function in HR (hairless);
Again one could say that this gene plays a important role.
Another example is APCDD1…
EDAR also important… Also alopecia develops.
This are purely observations, crucial to the scientific method. After all that is how Hamilton theorized androgenetic alopecia.
After all this is how Imperato- McGinley studied pseudo-hermaphrodites in the Dominican republic. He observed that they have small prostates. Looked at what genetic defect they had, found out that it was the 5ar2 enzyme and finasteride was born mate..
“Another thing that Imperato-McGinley discovered, which would have profound implications for many men around the world, was that the Guevedoces tend to have small prostates.
This observation, made in 1974, was picked up by Roy Vagelos, head of research at the multinational pharmaceutical giant, Merck. He thought this was extremely interesting and set in progress research which led to the development of what has become a best-selling drug, finasteride”
Such observations have been and are still crucial to science. It is a utmost important factor of the scientific method. After that they also noticed that these pseudo-hermaphrodites had awesome hair and never got AGA. That led to them to the idea of trialing finasteride for AGA. Unfortunately one can say this treatment is pretty much still the only thing we have. This is science pur sang.
It’s only a matter of time, before better treatments are arriving though.
And in regards to JAK, we’ll probably have near conclusive evidence soon if it works or not :).
Wow thanks Swoop!! I will read up more on this for some future posts.
@Swoop, thank you for answering the HT questions, pure gold! Just like im considering Fin im also considering a HT. Like I said before, your surgeon did an amazing job. From looking at your pics it also seems like I would not need as many grafts as you. I got diffused frontal thinning but still have complete coverage, no bald spots. Its crazy expensive to get FUE in Denmark but im willing to pay the extra price if I can find a good clinic.
Cool man. I’m going to stop everything about JAK now. I’ll promise.
No problem mate. I did much research before going with a HT though. It’s crucial I think. Educate yourself properly before taking the plunge.. You need to be cautious with the hair transplant industry. I’m from the Netherlands and I traveled to Turkey for my HT. I “only” paid 5500 euro and that was including everything, hotel, food, flight tickets and my 2835 grafts. Generally the best surgeons are in Belgium and Turkey I think in Europe. Here is another picture;
First implantation.. Then the ugly “ducking phase” :p, before having regrowth again. That’s my hair slicked back.
Sorry for the scabbing btw, it might be a bit nasty for some :p. If you have any questions just shoot them I’ll be looking around now and then here on this blog!
Great results! New short post coming up soon today in case you want to wait and comment there.
@Swoop, you wanna reccommend a specific clinic? I’d love to know where you went for that result?
As we all know, Thorn Medical bought out Okyanos, which already has medical staff at hand, and approved by the Bahamian government.
I agree with Swoop on the same reasons of skepticism but I never saw Aderans or Follicept doing any of that – throwing that kind of money around. For that reason, I think they are amateur examples that someone would read and nod without considering the circumstances.
Dr. Irum Khan and the medical coordinator of Thorn Medical have me scheduled for an examination this year I’m supposed to hear back from them in the next 90 days about their clinicals this fall. That’s all I know. I get personally attacked too for reaching out to them being called dumb and niave personally I don’t feel stupid for being on the list. I think it would be hilarious if they were a scam. Considering the amount of money they threw out.
They are not a scam, but I bet you they are not going to be able to cure mpb. They will just do some adipose cell stuff like kerastem and match it with fue. I mean if they found a way to functionally clone hairs then it would have been more advertised and on the news. Especially if b they are opening this fall. It’s only 3 months away they would have started advertising all over the place to promote unlimited hairs for ht.
definitely possible, I’ll find out this fall.
Kelopesia guy never got back with me I think that product turned out to be a scam.
Kelopesia is total crap. Some Turkish actor used it and he got no results. Bronzu lotion will probably fall in the same category. I find it skeptical when Dr bronzu brags about how well it works for mpb and then just shows results of bronzu on areata patients. Why avoid mpb results. Why all the hidden bs and delays bur for areata he has no problem posting pics right away same thing goes for jak. Even though jak might have a chance for mpb. I’m at the point where if my gut tells me something is fishy then it really is.
I just have faith in follica, histogen and sm
You are correct. When they have a drog that possible work for AA and they say that also will work in AGA is only to create more hype. We can se it the same thing in Brotzu and jak.
And this is because why?
HISTOGEN in 1 year will stop talking about AGA. You will sea.