Brief Items of Interest, June 2016

Hair loss news first:

Very busy past month in the hair loss world.

Update: Dr. Neal Walker just presented for the final (third) time this month on June 22, 2016, this time at the JMP Securities Life Sciences Conference in New York.  Two clear POSITIVE statements on JAK inhibitors and AGA (webcast found here):

Around 14:30

Mr. Walker: “We do know that systemic JAK inhibitors do not work in this (=AGA) disorder, but topical does.”

Around 22:30

Investor question: “so it would work for both types of alopecia:”

Mr. Walker: “Yes.”

— Allergan starts phase 2A clinical trials for Setipiprant this month.  Study completion date is set as September 2017.  They are going to be recruiting all over the US for volunteers.

— I am disappointed that in my last blog post, despite over 350 comments, there was essentially zero discussion of the two most salient points that I made:

  1. Commentator “nasa_rs”‘ blast from the past and its relevancy if any to JAK inhibitors (i.e., topical>system plus works for both AA and AGA).
  2. Androgenetic Alopecia (AGA) being classified as an immune system problem in Daphne Zohar’s presentation slide on Follica (enlargeable slide is here under “Tracksterdam’s post — see vertical text on left side). Yet, the same company’s co-founder Dr. Cotsarelis claimed to CNN in 2014 that AGA was not an immune system problem so JAK inhibitors were unlikely to work.  What gives? The exact words in the CNN article:Cotsarelis was adamant about it because male pattern baldness isn’t related to the immune system.

— An interesting new interview with Dr. Takashi Tsuji.  Not too much on hair, but nevertheless worth a read.  Key part:

Interviewer question: “Speaking of hair loss, it was recently reported that you are working with a private company to development a treatment for using regenerative medicine to regrow hair. Will this be available soon?”

Dr. Tsuji’s answer: “I think it will. We have developed technology to grow hair follicles using stem cells, as hair follicles are one of the few organs where we always have stem cells ready. We hope to be able to start clinical trials in the next few years so that the treatment can move into the clinic.”

Having a mathematics background, I am biased and was pleased to read two quotes from Dr Tsuji: “Biological phenomena are governed by mathematics” and “I think that probably all of biology can be explained by math.

— I hate to give Donald Trump’s hair any more coverage than has already been given by the media for years, but this new 10 page (!!) or so article is pretty spectacular in its depth and research effort. The best ever analysis of Trump’s hair.  I learnt a new hair loss industry term: “microcylinder intervention.”  The 25th floor in Trump Tower is apparently where all the hair action has been taking place for years.

— A new privately-held company named  RiverTown Therapeutics claims to have a proprietary topical product called RT1640 that regrows hair and also darkens gray and white hair.  They claim to have tested the product in seven humans so far.  Way too few to garner any confidence, and the company does not even seem to have a website as yet.  If the company’s CEO David Weinstein ever changes his Linkedin photo and suddenly has dark hair, I will follow the company more closely:-)  The three agents that comprise RT1640 are supposedly very safe and together they promote “the reanimation of hair follicles through the recruitment and differentiation of follicular stem cells, including melanocyte stem cells.”  Thanks to Xaser94 for continuing to find these hidden gems.

— Also thanks to Xaser94 for finding out about yet another new company named Gemstone Biotherapeutics.

— New study from the UK on β-catenin signalling and hair follicle regeneration during wound healing.  Thanks to commentator Paul Pheonix for the find.

— New study from China titled “Self-assembling peptide hydrogel scaffolds support stem cell-based hair follicle regeneration.”  Bit above my level of understanding, but thankfully we now have around 3-5 commentators who seem to understand this stuff well and are in the biology field in some capacity or other.

— I have covered Dr. Kevin McElwee on this blog before.  It seems like his lab at The University of British Columbia in Canada (plus others) might be doing some hair loss related research for a new company named Avagenesis.

— Increasing rumors that Prince William is finally considering getting a hair transplant.

— US swimming superstar Katie Ledecky has been in the news a lot lately due to the approaching 2016 Rio Olympics. Her hairline is a hot topic of discussion online and recently Katie said “I have such short hair that they think I’m a little boy” in an interesting interview.

A real life Rapunzel.

— Bulgarian soccer/football player Dimitar Berbatov gets a great hair transplant.

— Ending on a sad note.  A really tragic hair transplant related death. Be very careful when you go abroad for cheap hair transplants, and run away immediately if they offer you a 50 percent discount.

And now on to medical items of interest:

An artificial heart for 555 days in a backpack prior to finally getting a heart transplant!  And the guy played basketball with it. More here.

Wearable artificial kidneys could change painful dialysis treatment forever.

— A story that some stroke patients were walking again after stem cell therapy at Stanford caused a lot of excitement recently, but some scientists remain skeptical.

— After all the hoopla surrounding the crazy Italian Dr. Sergio Canavero and his full body transplant (inaccurately called a head transplant) ambition, we now have similar plans emanating from China.

— More improvements in bionic hands.  And even more.   Mr. Hugh Herr will be pleased.

Baby-making in the lab instead of via sex and eugenics.  No longer far fetched.

BBC Panaroma — Gene Editing.  Youtube video is now removed from the US (my favorite part started around 22:30 and my favorite quote was right after 28:20 in the video that I saw).

Gene editing will change entire species forever.

HIV genes cut out of animals via CRISPR.

 

333 thoughts on “Brief Items of Interest, June 2016”

  1. I like to always go with worst case scenario and say with follica it will be 25 cm2 of actual quality hair. That is still good if you are a nw3, maybe 4 or lower to give you a good coverage. If they can actually yield 75 cm2 of neogenic hair which is semi good quality just to fill in some added density then great but if it’s weak small baby hairs then it’s worthless. The 25cm2 would be the only thing to focus as the other hairs will be useless unless you add histogen which could make them terminal

    1. Indeed, even 25 new terminal hairs per cm2 would still amount to a whopping 15,000 new hairs across the whole 600cm2 (approximate) surface area of the scalp.

      To me it would be imperative that Follica’s topical skin perturbation (TCP) technique could be performed over the entire surface area of the scalp, not just small select areas. I’d want added density on my sides and the back, as well as on top.

      But we don’t know exactly what the wounding method will entail and if only limited areas of scalp can be treated at any one time.

  2. I always had hope for Replicel, but it seems like they passed the torch to Shiseido anyway so being concerned with their inability to work and communicate shouldn’t be too straining. I think JAK and Tsuji’s work will be the ultimate answer. For now, I would just learn to live with yourself. One day when you wake up it will be HUGE news. Great work admin on your amazing website.

  3. Guys assuming jaks did work for aga, do you think we could take a course of jaks for a while, stop and use fin to keep the hair than grew back?

    Applying a lotion all over your scalp every day for life would be a bit of an inconvenience. Moreover, the lifelong costs of using a jaks lotion would be sky high and perhaps even unaffordable for many people.

    1. I couldn’t give less crap if I have to apply and honestly I don’t understand you people I’d much rather use a topical because then it wouldn’t mess with my whole body systemically.
      I can’t even take Fin due to that reason, it grows breasts more effectively than hair (in my case). It makes sense to deliver the compounds to your scalp, that’s where the problem is , not your whole body. It would be like if you needed to pour gasoline into your car just throw it into a pool of gasoline and hope some makes it into the tank never mind the fact the whole thing might catch fire cause there is now fuel in all the areas it’s not supposed to be?

      The cost should be more appropriate once this makes it mainstream however.

  4. In the presentation from Aclaris on June 22nd a little after 22 minutes in, the investor straight up asks him if it works for “BOTH” types of alopecia AA and AGA – the answer was yes… there you go not sure why people are over-complicating this ; he clearly said it works.

    1. Exactly. People need to sit back and let this play out. IMO It’s going to be good.

      Let me give you guys a hypothetical scenario. If you were betting men, would you bet on the person who cures AGA being a regular dermatologist like Cotsarelis etc or a person WHO STUDIES THE GENES BEHIND DIFFERENT HAIR LOSS DISORDERS FOR A LIVING?? I would have to say option number two is who I’d place my money on. And that is exactly what Cristiano is. She had started where hair loss starts… The genes. Her patent is from 2012/2013. This whole topically applying a JAK inhibitor to mice has come quite a ways before the article that was released in October/November of last year. The point is, like I’ve said before, the things we in the public know now is old science to those testing in the lab. They have a vested interest to do so if the potential market is as enormous as AGA is. So it is certainly possible they’ve done case studies in AGA already and are keeping it extremely quiet. We simply don’t know yet.

      And now we have the person behind studying the gene networks behind different hair loss disorders selling the IP for royalties, which will be used for AGA. And now three times the presenter of a highly valued company says this works for AGA topically as apposed to orally. I don’t know how much more we can mince this… I feel pretty good about this compared to other upcoming treatments, but this is just one mans opinion after an enormous amount of reading. Anyone can do their own research and draw there own conclusions.

  5. I really don’t have the time to go through them all until summer school is out, but I obviously think he’s completely wrong from even some of the stuff I’ve read. He’s a bro scientist who refuses to ever give anything but minox, 5a.r. Inhibition, or hair transplants a chance. His only counter argument of “evidence” can essentially be buried with time as more evidence will come out. I am also a bro scientist. We don’t have any yet. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

    Cristiano is NOT a bro scientist. As stated, she studies the genes behind this and has for a very long time. She’s not just a dermatologist. This is her specialty. And has now sold off her IP which is coming up on 4 years old and pharma company for royalties, to a huge medical company who has now claimed 3 separate times that a topical JAK inhibitor works in AGA, and a systemic one does not. And has aquired JAK inhibitor production companies before christiano sold anything to them… They were talking long before this I’m sure. As Cristiano even hinted at in her interview with kobren on the BTT, she stated that “perhaps it needs to be highly concentrated in the follicle in AGA” and “we want this to hang around for a while around the follicle” (JAK inhibitors have a short half life…. Hence the reason they are developing a covalently bonded inhibitor…. It is a MUCH more powerful intermolecular force than anything tofac or ruxol could provide, which only works through charge-charge interactions and hydrogen bonding, so it should silence the targeted JAK(s) even more effectively than tofac or ruxol could). I think you all can do the math. This isn’t a “it works” like minoxidil. We’ve seen in other hair disorders a complete reversal of hair loss. Not just tufts. That’s why this is so exciting. We also have evidence of cots and his team saying this is an immune system driven disorder. I think it would only make sense that potentially resetting the immune system clock could do wonders for AGA.

    Anyways, off to bed before surely getting destroyed the next couple of weeks with summer school. Nothing swoop has said has changed my opinion in the least

    1. Hey Matt do you think this has the potential to bring back hair that has been lost for many years? Not expecting you to know…but can you guess based on the science? Follicles never die, but they say progenitor cells do die in AGA after hair loss has been going on for a while.

      1. Hi admin,

        I have a feeling that it may still be possible? Well, i’m just basing this completely on Swiss Temples who grew some hair on his temples and noted that these were bald for almost 9 Years already. So maybe! 🙂

        1. Yes, but if the hair grew back had fallen because of the DTH or other problem not related to the depletion of hair cycles , this theory still stands … no? Yes? … The administrator asks a good question. Please Matt, it is a very relevant question. I have nothing hair and i’m really scared.

          1. William, I would just chill out about it. No one likes not having hair/losing hair. It sucks for us all. Especially the younger you are. But without doubt far better things are coming very soon. Just be patient 🙂

      2. As long as there are stem cells, yes I do think it is possible. Let us not forget that there is a loss of vascularizarion in AGA. So that alone is a good reason to think that topical would be much more effective in AGA as apposed to a systemic JAK inhibitor. So if AGA is far advanced, you would not be getting nearly enough of the medicine to the follicle to do anything via the bloodstream in this particular hair loss disorder. So how do you get around this? You introduce it through the skin as a topical.

        Secondly, I’d like to throw another little tidbit out there.

        http://www.kidney-international.org/article/S0085-2538(15)30214-3/pdf

        This is in the kidney, not the hair follicle but it is a very interesting read and ties immune system function to vitamin d. The article mentions how JAK3 knockout increases 25-Hydroxyvitamin D 1-alpha hydroxylase activity/expression. What is this thing I just mentioned?

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-Hydroxyvitamin_D3_1-alpha-hydroxylase

        It is the enzyme responsible for converting vitamin d3 to the bioactive (the kind the body can use) form of vitamin d3. Under functions on the right hand side of the page, some of them are “response to
        Estrogen” and “positive regulator of keratinocyte differentiation”. It is also expressed in keratinocytes (what the hair shaft is ultimately made from).

        Vitamin d is CRUCIAL to mitochondrial induced cellular energy. The body gets about 90% of this vitamin from the sun (uv rays). And the whole point of a “vitamin” is that the body cannot produce much of it, if at all, but needs it. Hence why they need to be introduced through external measures such as diet, or in this case the sun. So perhaps the phenotype of AGA is just the body not metabolizing vitamin d properly in the hair follicle… The result? The body kicks the hair follicles out over time to allow more sunlight to hit the skin and be synthesized, thus getting the vitamin d it needs for cellular energy ATP production in the skin of the scalp. Just a thought.

        1. Also, one of the most down regulated genes in AGA scalp is VDR, the vitamin d receptor. And this enzyme catalyzes it’s expression per the Wikipedia page that I posted.

        2. Thanks! I have thought of writing a post related to Vitamin D for a while, but did not know enough about the subject. Might do so now.

    2. Matt, might a naturopathic topical be moderately effective, similar to how Saw Palmetto has been found to be useful as a 5ARi ?

  6. nice comment Matt,

    But guys how long do you think it will take to get this product for sell.
    all component used for JAK are already approved by FDA ??

    so they have to make phase 1 phase2 and phase 3 trial in order to sell the product?

    Guys this hair loss really RUIIIIINED my life.

  7. If an old bald aga guy applied topical jaks and regrew hair, I wonder what sort of hair it would be. Would it be the amount of hair he has at 10, 16, 20, 25 years old? Even non balding guys lose some hair density as they age. If jaks could truly grow back ALL hair, it should not discriminate and surely all the follicles would come back.

    So we’ll see old men with child-like hair/hair density?

  8. @Barberryshill,

    The problem is.. This isn’t only about the observations in AA. Remember also Vitiligo. And let’s take Psoriasis? Oral systemic JAK inhibitors show to work against that too. Check..

    “Psoriasis is characterized by an abnormally excessive and rapid growth of the epidermal layer of the skin.[44] Abnormal production of skin cells (especially during wound repair) and an overabundance of skin cells result from the sequence of pathological events in psoriasis.[15] Skin cells are replaced every 3–5 days in psoriasis rather than the usual 28–30 days.[45] These changes are believed to stem from the premature maturation of keratinocytes induced by an inflammatory cascade in the dermis involving dendritic cells, macrophages, and T cells (three subtypes of white blood cells).[10][36] These immune cells move from the dermis to the epidermis and secrete inflammatory chemical signals”

    Look at the last party; “These immune cells move from the dermis to the epidermis”.

    Now epidermis.. Well I think you might know that it’s pretty much non-vascularized.. Around the same proximity where Vitiligo takes place again;

    “The Epidermis does not contain blood vessels (non-vascular). It contains the pigment melanin which gives skin colour and allows the skin to tan”

    This means again that these drugs to concentrate itself in or close to that proximity of that later.. So remember I’m not only talking about the observations on AA…

    This is a lost cause. In any case I wonder what most of these beta-cuckolds here are doing then like Matt and Ddog. The cream is out there, boys! What are you actually waiting for? Going to wait a few years? You have a 2% cream available which is compounded. Show us the magic. Or wait, let me see the failure ;). And if that fails what will your next argument be? That tofactinib isn’t strong enough at a beastly IC50=1nM for JAK3 or that the vehicle isn’t good enough? LOL. Yes, I can smell that in advance. Excuses, always excuses and zero evidence.

    Problem is every observational evidence points towards JAK inhibitors doing nothing for AGA period. The topical argument is based on a rodent model and is extremely weak. Quite frankly speaking there isn’t even any hair alteration seen in thousands of people! Imagine that. It doesn’t even seem to modulate hair follicle function anywhere on the body contrary to immunomodulatory compounds like cyclosporine A which induce hypertrhicosis in an overwhelming % of subjects.

    Matt,

    Argumentum ad verecendiam again, same as Ddog. How cute. But what do you actually really have to show? NOTHING. That’s the funny thing. Only your hypotheses like you actually “understand” the incredible difficulty of AGA, by probably reading a few papers.

    Do you know how funny that is to me? I’m asking you again where is your evidence, besides the mice? Scientific method mate. You don’t even have any observations to show me. Not even 1 single case report of a human. Because there is none! I even would wager money against this lina recta .

    So wager vs me mate. I’ll give you 1/5 odds in your favor!! How much can you spare from your piggybank or your parents? Let’s do it Matt? Big talks, nothing to show. That’s in reality what you have mate. Suddenly you crumble now, huh? Or you will say that a bet is ridicilous right ;).. Yeah dude, many scientists do that or have done that in the past. A popular one would be Stephen Hawking vs Gordon Kane about the Higgs boson. So what do you say? Come on, do it for all your audience here. You have Aclaris on your site a multi million dollar company, A.M Christiano and your own opinion. The choice should be easy for you.

    1. “Look at the last party; “These immune cells move from the dermis to the epidermis”

      That’s exactly what I already said, systemic JAKi is binding to immune cells in the blood stream (as your diagram shows), and the inhibitory effect is carried with them as they move – therefore, the fact that systemic JAKi treats diseases where immune cells move outside the bloodstream (vitiligo, psoriasis) is not a valid argument about hypothetical concentrations of JAKi at those locations. Especially in conditions where immune cell action is irrelevant, for example hair growth as stated in the Christiano research. This is the same thing I said in my last post, I’m just repeating myself to make my logic as clear as possible since your reply didn’t address it.

  9. @Spanky,

    Thank you mate. Yes, I consider my HT very successful indeed. I’m basically a norwood 1 or 1,5 now. I only suffer from very subtle side effects, nothing serious. I take 0.5mg EOD btw. Indeed you could start out with a low dosage. If you get side effects you can just quit. Educate yourself on the risks though before taking the plunge. In Japan the recommended dosage is actually 0.2mg daily. That dosage almost fully saturates the 5ar2 enzyme. That’s why you don’t see much of a difference in serum levels between taking 0.2mg daily or 1mg daily. Hair counts are in favor of 1mg but it shouldn’t make that much of a difference in most people. So starting with something like 0.5mg EOD, or 0.2mg daily is totally fine to get a feel for the drug. Hope that helps man.

    Later, Swoop.

  10. Just to show you guys the ridiculousness btw as how potent tofactinib is towards JAK3…

    ” Finasteride has higher affinity for 5α-R type II (IC50 = 9.4 nM) versus type I (IC50 = 410 nM).”

    This means that tofactinib is roughly 9x as potent in inhibiting
    JAK3 as finasteride is towards inhibiting 5ar2 on the same dosage.

    Now this is very roughly as pharmacokinetics go way deeper and are more complex as that, but this is a very big difference.
    Now imagine that finasteride already tends to almost fully saturate 5ar2 in serum level at 0.2mg while the recommended dosage is 1mg. While tofactinib generally is given at a 5mg or 10mg dosage orally. Meaning that that dosage of tofactinib indicates that tofactinib is also meant to overthrow the JAK2 and also JAK1. Indeed simple rough calculations will give you this in comparison with finasteride.

    But remember tofactinib displays that IC50=1nM towards JAK3. Ridicilously potent.

  11. At the end of the day, most people are pretty open minded and don’t care from which researcher or company the solution for our problems come from, me included. We just want a decent fix which is affordable and safe, of course.

    So please leave the ‘fighting’ (or betting) over stuff to the researchers as the scientific community is always about opposed hypotheses and mindsets. Nobody will ever be able to get all noses pointing to the same direction.
    Thats okay, but show some mutual respect as is shown overall in the academic community.

    As I have bald spots, grey hair, SebDermatitis, and extreme itch/inflammation I would be an idiot if I wouldn’t try any treatment that looks legit. I have a good feeling JAKs will work against the itch (inflammation/immune response), the dermatitis (like psoriasis) and the greying (like vitiligo). As the itch and dermatitis parts are also at the balding sites, the balding issue might …

  12. @Netshed,

    Who says I don’t show respect? I do. In fact I don’t know if you know but I have been in e-mail contact with several elite hair researchers. Even going to meet with two of them at the hair congress 2017 in Japan. They are world elite, that’s all I will say. I love to talk with them and learn from them.

    I’m open for everything. But blatantly stating that JAK inhibitors work for AGA while that CEO refers clearly the last two times to a pre-clinical model is borderline ridiculous. Do you even know that people could be crushed by this? I mean perhaps instead of overestimating what these researchers/companies currently can do you should overestimate how hard AGA is to treat. Which stems from multi modal factors;

    – AGA itself seems to be an incredible complex pathology. Might be irreversible at some point. It actually is irreversible in some point in some people as evidenced by the fibrosis shown in studies which leads to destruction of the HF.

    – We have no proper model to go by. A rodent model is a ineffective model for AGA (every researcher will agree)

    – Funding is low

    – Only like ~50 hair researchers worldwide. Single labs of cancer have more scientists working on the problem than we have.

    In any case you should always look at the evidence, which simply isn’t present in JAK inhibitors. Mate, even the likes of Dr. Cotsarelis talked 10~ years ago that a cure would inevitably arise. Do you think they are so sure nowadays? Nah. Lately he spoke of “customized” therapies that might work a bit more for one person than the other. Similarly I know the opinion of others. Don’t be so sure mate, it’s a very hard complex problem. AA in comparison is a laugh.

    After all you do realize that we have minoxidil currently and it is the best hair growth agent? Multi million dollar companies, elite researchers anno 2016 can’t beat minoxidil. And minoxidil was even discovered by accident, how ironic…. So tell me are all those people that stupid that they can’t outperform minoxidil? Or is it maybe that we know very little of AGA itself and it seems to be a huge problem? After all… We don’t even know exactly how minoxidil works LOL.

    Come on.. Anyway my last post here. Not really a place for a pur sang realist as me. I’ll stick to reading now and then. But remember what I said regarding not taking action and being overconfident in the near future for better therapies. It might just bite you in the ass.

    Later, Swoop!

    1. Swoop, why is AA a laugh in comparison to AGA? Please explain the science.

      Also, what does Minoxidil performance have to do with JAK inhibitors?

      Finally, is your theory that… because millions of dollars have already been spent by elite companies on AGA, Dr. Walker’s company couldn’t possibly find a cure? If so, please explain the logic behind how other companies being unsuccessful affect’s Aclaris’s result.

  13. @Swoop. More and more broscience…Hey swoop you forgot references. You’ve heard of the RefWorks program? haha…
    Bye Swoop. Good Luck with side effects… You really need it.

    1. You can also read his posts on HLT… The world does not stop after this blog. And he makes good points.

      You are just buying media buzz… but you will learn, no worries.

  14. @Slick rick,

    AA is simplistic in it’s nature. You can read the studies yourself. I just gave you a picture with a diagram in some post before. The mechanism is pretty much almost completely known. AA related disorders have been reversed many times before, even fully. These JAK inhibitors just do a way better work at it, specifically to more harsh AA related disorders like universalis and totalis. However even in the past immunomodulatory compounds like cyclosporine, tacromilus, methroxerate and even coricosteroids could reverse AA related disorders partly or fully. Again these JAK inhibitors just do it way better. Check here in the past;

    http://s2.postimg.org/sak0lf1e1/image.jpg

    Jup that isn’t through any JAK inhibitor at all. Now can you show me someone who had extreme reversal in AGA? I’ll tell you, nobody. Out of hundreds of millions of people, never ever. The only way what we have seen as Dr. Cotsarelis tells it perfectly;

    “Studies and case reports of transgender operations where men become women and receive high doses of estrogen show that a scalp that was almost completely bald can have, after castration and high estrogen supplementation, a tremendous amount of hair growth.”

    Furthermore there seems to be no angle. Some EGFR antagonist case reports with minimal regrowth. Three benoxaprofen case reports with minimal moderate regrowth (out of millions of people). That’s it pretty much mate.. Ohw yeah and the famous grandpa who fell into a coal fire and miraculously regrew his hair. The latter is probably most interesting of these all, which favors Follica, as after all it is a form of wounding. Oh and estrogen, but it’s extremely complex. Only these observations should tell you something. Look at it from a big picture mate.

    Slick Rick, I don’t look at money at all. After all Allergan is a multi billion dollar company that dwarfs Aclaris hilariously. No contest. The worth of Aclaris to Allergan is pocket change for them. Yet they can’t outperform minoxidil either. Meanwhile a chinese guy with no money at hand delivers a method that can challenge CRISP and might induce revolutionary step in terms of gene editing. Money/credentials is nothing mate. It’s about having the right method, brains and subsequently delivering evidence. Evidence that currently lacks. Ask Elon Musk, the god himself. God I wish we had that guy actually work on this. A visionary realist who knows what can be achieved and what not. He would probably destroy this disease on a preventative angle within 10 years. Well at least he got a very nice hair transplant ;).

    Eventually better treatments will arise, off course. But that doesn’t neglect the points I just mentioned. Add to this that regulations don’t work in your favor either. Many things, many years. Hell even to research particular stuff in pre-clinical models you need to wait many months for approval. Red tape slows it down so hard..

    In regards, to JAK I already gave my reasons. In any case a topical of even 1% tofa will totally demolish JAK3 in your your skin. So go get it? If you want it hard enough you will get it trust me… The compounds are out there for you to grab. Studies of topical JAK inhibitors are out there and demonstrate dermal penetration. A simple google search will suffice ;).

  15. Also one more thing. People make it sound like Aclaris relies on their AGA topical product.. Come on… They have a perfect portfolio. I concur these JAK inhibitors do display proper effectiveness against auto-immune related disorders like Vitiligo, AA related disorders, Psoriasis etc…

    If their AGA topical fails then that’s not a problem at all for them. After all they will have their drugs for these other indications and the $$$ will flow freely. It’s not like they only rely on this AGA topical LOL. They won’t lose much sleep if it won’t be effective enough.

    1. Swoop, thank you for your attempt at a rational response.

      I can summarize your stance in a much quicker statement… Basically, you do not believe jak inhibitors to be effective on AGA, because you’ve not yet seen evidence that it works.

      To that, I repond… duh… This is a cutting edge website where we are focused on POTENTIAL for hair loss cures, and a very preliminary announcement of a major breakthrough has us all cautiously optimistic and speculating on science for recreation and moral support. If we had complete evidence of a hair loss cure as you demand, then we would not be on this website discussing it anymore.

      In summary, your negative position that jak inhibitors are not a cure due to lack of evidence has no place here. I am amazed at how many words you can use without really saying anything useful.

      The day you get proof of the hair loss cure will be the day this website is no longer needed. And so, the rationale behind your negative outlook is ridiculous.

  16. They would still stand to lose much if their topical was not effective for mpb. AA and other autoimmune disorder sufferers make up a very small percentage of people with hairloss. Mpb affects like 1 out of every 3 people.

    No doubt you have done your research on this topic, but I have a feeling you may be missing something. Or maybe we are. But from what I have seen, the science behind it seems to back it up. Even if only ONE person in history managed to reverse his mpb fully, it would prove it CAN be done. And it HAS been done, as you pointed out. And also like you said, no one has any idea why minox works for hairloss, which was accidentally discovered. This is a drug being formulated specifically for the disorder, so I feel like it has a much better shot.

    I do think we have to be modest with our optimism however, seeing as many new “potential cures” have come and gone bringing nothing but disappointment. No one knows except the people involved, so anything you or anyone else says is pure speculation. I do think we should leave the betting and pissing contest off this site though. We are all fighting the same stupid disease and hoping for a cure. All we can do is wait, and ccontinue to try and maintain in the meantime.

    1. Good comment on Minox. I was thinking the same thing that no one understands why it works. It just does.. kind of.

  17. Guys, don’t listen to Swoop. He’s a sad broscientist with nothing better to do than spend hours on this site. If he’s so smart, he’d be out there curing MPB himself. Trust Christiano and Aclaris, who has said many times that Jak works for AGA, and is investing $20 million dollars in it. Swoop, take your pessimism elsewhere.

    1. Me sad? Life is great honestly. How can I be sad be with a rockin’ NW1 and a physique like a Greek god? Plus apparently I’m getting well paid by Kirkland ;). Don’t reflect your own emotions upon me man. Just a realist pur sang man, nothing more than that.

      Peace out, brah!

        1. Haha.. I sure have a fat head :). I posted my physique actually several times before with different pictures;

          https://s31.postimg.org/xg9wd7tor/hehe_2.jpg

          You call this sort of a physique fat? You beta cuckold lol, skinny guy probably talking from his desk.

          Winners are winners mate. Improve on a intellectual, physical, relationship level. I bet you ain’t very far in any of those DDog seeing how your responses were towards me. Now keep waiting and win the discussion you like to win by providing me evidence one day of JAK inhibitors regrowing those dear hair follicles, which we all love here.

          1. Hahahhaa, you think that is ripped… please. Come on dude.. That is how I looked when I was 14. I played college ball, own a gym, and I am married. You are just a guy that spews broscience on the web. It is funny that you post photographs of yourself on message boards. What kind of narcissist are you? You think anyone cares or is impressed?

          2. Hi Swoop,
            Quick question. When i was on fin i developed slight gyno en puffy nipples. Not really noticible like in your photo but looks like it.

            Do you have slight gyno? If so, how did it develop?

      1. You need to learn more about drugs and integumentary system and less “steroids” Swoop… Many patients who take Finasteride have generalized swelling caused by fluid retention. Take care about that. Only a good advice. Be careful with side effects are VERY REAL. That’s NOT A JOKE.

        Take care.

        1. Paul, ever read studies which describe FFMI in natural vs steroid users? Probably not again… I’m not even at the top. My genetics don’t give me much more than this. I would say I have above average genetics though.

          Generalized swelling by finasteride? You are scaremongering now, are you not? I think you mistake yourself with minoxidil which in very rare cases topically can cause fluid retention, not finasteride.

          Besides, DHT doesn’t function a big role in muscle hypertrophy. 3a-HSD is abundant in muscle tissue and this metabolizes DHT to a very weak androgen.

          I’m aware of the risks of finasteride furthermore completely. You think I actually believe that we have good current treatments anno 2016 (finasteride and minoxidil)? Hell no, it’s a disgrace.. I would have at least expected a very potent AR antagonist with excellent pharmacokinetic properties that displays a very favorable profile in side effects.

          As you describe yourself an optimist it was logical we would have friction mate.. I’m a realist like I said.

          Good luck in your life man and I hope we can all regrow our hair in the near future.

          This is really my last post,

          Peace out brah!

  18. This DDog now says he looked like that when he was 14…. And he owns a gym! Hahaha. Dude. You made my week. You really did.

    Not really, I’m actually very humble and helpful on the boards versus everyone. I just wanted to lure you out in a response and I achieved that. You spew nonsense mate, as evidenced in your last reply. You made yourself look like a fool by saying you looked like that when you were 14 . You really are a clown, huh.

  19. You really are an egomaniac. Believe what you want. Do you see anyone else posting pictures of themselves on here? Do you think that is just because you are so wonderful and special? Or is it just because you are the strangest dude on the boards? 24 is really young for a HT.. I pray for you man.

    1. Sure ;)…You called “donitello” a weird guy in Admin his last post while the guy posted a very well valid grounded message. I would never do that. Says more about you than me. That was immediately when I knew you are a joke mate.

      I actually had my HT at 26 of age, I’m 27 now. But thanks don’t worry. Thanks anyway for making my week and I loved slamming you. And I only do it versus peeps like you, beta cuckold guys <3.

      Peace out man!

    1. You made my week DDog :), you are a clown. You made me laugh many times, thanks for that.

      Anyway some GOOD news guys for everyone else, all credit to that guy “Tomtom21”;

      https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/histogen-update-from-gail.99607/

      Histogen is apparently moving forward and it’s great that they do a N=330 across 3 clinical site with another trial coming in the USA.

      Let’s hope that their latest data wasn’t to biased and they can replicate these datasets again with hopefully also better pictures.

      Hands up boys ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ !!

  20. Hello guys,

    Firstly to Swoop: How come you still hold out faith in Replicel/Shiseido/rch01? I thought it was clear by now that Rolf ‘trichoscanner’ Hoffman, that elusive McElwee dude and Lee “the buckmeister” Buckler were all charlatans selling their dud technology to Shiseido?

    Over on hlt, someone posted a link to this Japanese ips cell research roadmap: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/attachments/1-png.40980/ . Not sure who published this info (perhaps the Japanese government?).

    People have been saying that it refers to Shiseido’s work, but isn’t Shiseido’s relying on derma cup/derma papilla cells and not IPS cells? Isn’t Riken using IPS and is funded by the government?

    1. Yo Habe,

      I believe in them because the science is sound. It is hypothesized that dermal sheath cup cells repopulate the DP. I believe that fixation or replacement of DP will lead to either regrowth or somewhat immunization towards androgens. I just hope that this is indeed the case and it works out like this. Furthermore they have been very well grounded in their interviews imo. Especially the one with hellhouser on hairlosstalk.

      Also autologous cell therapy like this is quite high-tech and predictions to make on this are pretty much impossible. Also let’s be honest. Drugs are a joke in a whole as you need to take them continuously. If you don’t those dear androgens start attacking your hair follicles again and you’ll be bald in no time. Therefore any drug that you take has have ideally a good side effect profile, and most drugs just don’t give that advantage right?

      And injections now and then for either immunization or stability with some regrowth would be godly.. Convenient as hell and it shouldn’t give any side effects at all. I just like the idea.

      You ain’t going to see IPS cell for a long time for AGA probably. They are considered as class 3 cell therapy treatments in Japan and heavily regulated, because they are risky because of cancer etc. Many research needs to go into them. Dr. Ohyama has done some research on IPS cells & hair follicle regeneration; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBDT255s8xE.

      Riken (Dr. Tsuji) with their beastly high elite researchers is about combings dermal papilla cells with epithelial stem cells. from the back of your head. They basically put those 2 cells together in a Petri dish, subsequently their idea is to put them in your scalp and a new hair follicle should develop. This would be obviously the creme de la creme of therapies.

      1. Hi Swoop,

        Thanks for your thoughts.

        Well I hope you are right about Shiseido. I would hope it could achieve a satisfactory level of regrowth and thickens existing hair. This is what the report on “Science Zero” seemed to suggest.

        So are Riken employing IPS cells in their treatment for aga or are dermal papilla cells with epithelial stem not IPS? 2020 to clinical trials already seems like a long time, but if they had to go through lengthier regulations then it would be a whole generation away and not much good for us.

  21. Hi guys,

    Did you see that Japanese “IPS cell research Roadmap” posted on another forum? Everyone seems to assume it’s Shiseido’s work, but aren’t they working with derma cup cells? Isn’t it Riken who are state-funded who are working with IPS?

  22. swoop dude, you’re such a insecure boy, stop holding the breath to take a picture of yourself, you’re a litte bit fat and probably getting bald (would not be here if werent so) anyway in fact of write bs wait of all the companies that are working in a better treatment.
    they are not here just to make us get angry, find a cure or a better treatment in MPB is a complicate process.

    1. Goddamn cris why did you tell this everyone? I told you to keep it secret that I’m balding fat..! No cookies for you tonight and house arrest for one week.

  23. I do not believe anything. I only believe when you see where is being carried out clínical trial and the results are presented. If to go clinicaltrials.gov the only trial was finish without show the results.
    And if the show that same pictures from the last 5 years i will enjoy and laugh a lot.
    The opposite i will the first to contribute to pay the ticket to admin when the treatment is available. XD

  24. @please stop the hatin on the Swoop…gotta love the Swoop for having scientific knowlege and sharing it with the rest of us. Whether hes right or wrong is not the point. We need different perspectives. Keep posting Swoop…

    1. @Spanky. You are right. Swoop is welcome here. I apologize if I ever offended you Swoop. You knowleadge is better than nothing. New treatments are coming. You know that Swoop. 🙂

      1. @Spanky, @Paul Phoenix,

        Thanks, I appreciate that. I don’t give one JAK shit about the hate though trust me ;). In a way I can imagine how someone would be upset if I display such confidence in a “cocky” manner about a upcoming treatment like JAK’s. On the other hand if you are that confident in your own opinion you shouldn’t be influenced by me really and ignore me. And yes new treatments are coming :).

        Last post now, as my fingers are starting to hurt from all the typing lol. Catch ya boys later!

        1. You act like you know everything, yet your grammer is garbage and logic is all over the place. Not cocky, ignorant and angry is the vibe I got.

  25. Mexico 2018 HSC
    Japan 2018 RCH-01
    USA 2018 Follica

    I’ll start an Airline offering tours for parients
    I will call it the HAirline !

  26. Let’s respect each other on here, we are all in the same boat and sharing the same knowledge. How many people know who Gail Naughton is or what is rch01? This rollercoaster is tough on us all.

    I’ll take a ticket for your airline please Netshed 🙂 First stop Philadelphia and the Follica clinic. I want to smell the still freshly painted walls…

    1. Skeptics always talk about the ‘hundreds’ of failed lotions that came to nothing and say sruff like “they were saying a better treatment was coming 20 years ago” etc…

      But honestly, what were these lotions called that proved ineffective? What were their mechanisms of action and were they discovered accidentally by esteemed Doctors such as Dr. Brotzu?

    2. Lewa, Admin, etc via google translate, “we developed a lotion containing cationic liposomes carrying PGE 1, S-equol and Carnitine […] PGE1 improved microcirculation, s-equol blocked 5-α- reductase and carnitine enters the beta-oxidation of lipid chains facilitating metabolism. Since PGE1 is considered a drug, replace it with its precursor Dihomo-gamma-linoleic acid (DGLA). The results were equal if not better than PGE1. There are scientific publications reporting that in cell cultures the DGLA stimulates the production of keratin.”

      It seems as if in this and in topical JAK, liposomal delivery is important to get medication to the right part of the follicle.

      1. I did not read the article, but Not really sure how facilitation of beta-oxidation is good for you? It means that your body is using/breaking down fat to produce ATP for energy…can lead to ketone production…then possibly ketoacidosis

        1. Phil Collins I don’t know, that’s just a translation from italian copy pasted from google. And I know nothing about the subject matter. Breaking down fat to produce ATP sounds good for you, right? But, going off what you said, the interview doesn’t actually say “facilitation of beta-oxidization.” It says carnation “ENTERS the beta-oxidization” so for all we know, it could be stopping beta oxidization. Whatever action happens via carnation “entering the beta-oxidization” results in “facilitating metabolism” which doesn’t seem like a bad thing… Again I have no idea what any of this means and I haven’t seen any reason at all to care about this “Brotzu Lotion” but at least they are good enough to list their ingredients.

  27. Wait wait, we don’t know how/why minox works?I mean I personally don’t,but I thought we had the science behind that or am I wrong again and we do? And if the case is that we don’t, wouldn’t it be beneficial that we understand the mechanism behind it?

    1. Minoxidil is a potent vasodilator that agonizes beta and alpha receptors in your vasculature. You take it orally and it dilates everything! The basic theory is that increased blood flow leads to greater nutrient supply to your hair.

    1. Uhm, I see a drug that’s out for how long now? 10years? 20years? And we don’t know why it actually works, I see why people call the hairloss industry a joke. I’ve heard that it helps blood circulation and what not but eh w/e .

    2. I have wondered why did researcher not try to reveal the secret of Minoxidil until now.
      This knowledge might be hint of hair loss cure…

  28. Swoop nice scientific background on the hair loss stuff. Ignore the haters and keep posting any updates you know from hair loss world. One more thing you mentioned that you are a nw1..why the fk are you on a hair loss forum? When I was in my 20s, when Propecia was maintaining my solid nw1.5, I never went on these blogs. I went on when I was 19 when I started losing hair and once I hoped on Propecia and it stopped my baldness I never came back, I was out living life and having fun. I just recently came back 3 years ago at the age of 31 when I started losing ground again. Some advice bro, get off this forum and enjoy your nw1 my man:) If you are losing ground then I can understand why you are on here but if you are not then go out and enjoy life!

    1. Mjones,

      Haha I’ll sure do mate, thanks. Anyway I’m enjoying life really. I’m doing a 2nd study now. Working in the hospitality business (bartending) while also tutoring sometimes. Besides that I go to the gym frequently. I also still go clubbing 2-3 a month etc. But I like to stimulate my intellect too. So if that means reading studies 2 hours a day and being on these forums while being a hermit in my man cave.. Well that’s enjoyable for me too really. That might sounds strange to you I guess. Everyone is different.

      Me and hair though… This dead keratin stuff which grows on our head… It’s been a battle man. I guess everyone can relate here lol. But since I started this journey hair follicle biology catched my interest and still does. Also I do have a bit of fear in the back of my head for in the future as the same might happen to me like you experiences. So I definitely like to keep an eye on future treatments. So that’s why. I hope you enjoy life too though, I bet you do!

  29. @Swoop ,

    Its nice to see newcomers express their opinions intelligently and respectfully but your combative language is anything but. Also using terms like “beta cuckold” and posting pictures of yourself would probably fit better over at the body building forums. As stated earlier you clearly have some insecurity issues as we all do, but please refrain from childish arguments. You stated that you are 27 and I find it a little sad that you cannot conduct yourself a little more maturely.

    People come here as friends to discuss the roller coaster that is the world of hair loss. Life is hard enough and to have petty arguments is just unnecessary and exhausting. You may have thick hair but your skin obviously Isn’t. So I imagine you’ll retort with some derogatory comment but I really don’t care and I will not respond.

    Having said that you appear to be an intelligent individual and I do look forward to more of your posts but again some civility would be appreciated.

    1. @Ninja,

      Funny nickname dude. Well I agree. I acted very immature and should have composed myself in a more mature manner, no doubt. That being said I think you have a very disturbed image of me which doesn’t reflect as how I normally behave. Sometimes everyone gets carried away I guess. I was just being annoyed at one or two individuals and loved to shut them and hammer them down, that’s all. Nothing of insecurity here. Do I have insecurities in life though? Pretty much everyone has. I’ll be more civil though. I don’t normally talk in BB slang ;).

  30. Lol guys, give credit where it’s due. Swoop does have a well maintained physique, assuming that is an actual picture of him. However, you also have to be suffering from some self-esteem issues if you’re that determined to prove yourself and gain the validation of a bunch of strangers on the Internet.

  31. Something interesting I’d like to share,not aga related but rather body hair related. I’d lie if give you exact year but I think it was 2012 or 13,I had a line of hair around 8 sm long removed from my forearm with a hairclipper, after that the hair in that line specifically went into miniaturization mode and completely bald in about a year and still is to this day. Noone so far was able to give me a slight idea into how this happened and how something like that is possible. There was nothing wrong with the clipper I have used it countless times before that, it was always kept clean and it didn’t came into contact with my skin, that is as much as I recall. Interesting observation -with the application of minoxidil on the bald spot for 6months all hairloss was reversed, 5months after discontinuing minox the line is back to being slick bald.

  32. Really struggling with the question of whether to use Fin.

    Aware of the statistics found in clinical trials and have read some of the known worst case scenarios.

    Started to try and gather statistics. There are 3881 members on Propecia Help. Went to see what the year on year sales for Propecia were. Interestingly, I found that 2015 Propecia sales were 183 million USD worth. Has been falling year on year since, I think, at least 2011, where it was closer to 450 million USD worth.

    Either everyone moved to generics or people are increasingly less willing to roll the dice…

    Proscar sales are also reported as having fallen from 2011 to 2013 – cannot find any other sales figures for Proscar though.

    This is not encouraging finding…

    *sigh

  33. @ swoop
    Lol. By posting that photo… What are you trying to prove and who are you trying to prove it to?

    This is a hairloss forum. Do you need attention? Or has this site really gotten that bad? Anything that comes out of your mouth is now going to be immediately ignored. I suggest you post under a different name if you want to be taken seriously.

    1. They just got the best out of him. Everybody knows not to get emotionally involved with arguments over the Internet, yet people constantly fail to do it. Swoop don’t give into dem jelly haterz xD. I for once found a lot of the information and insight very useful

      1. Exactly mate. You get it. Was just frustrated with stupidity,, got emotional, weak of me. Should have maintained my cool. It’s very atypical of me… Only pure stupidity can lure it out. Thanks anyway… And I won’t. Having haters is always a good thing actually.

  34. I don’t know much about jak inhibitor but I feel like they will work. For one they increase inductivity of dermal papillae cells. Which means if the topical inhibitor reached the hair follicle bulge, where the dermal papillae cells reside then it will induce hair growth. Plus, they tried the topical inhibitor on human skin, it was grafted on mice, and it induced hair growth and the onset of anagen phase. I don’t know how effective grafted human skin is on mice but I think it is significant that it increased hair growth in human skin.

    1. The dermal papilla is at the base of the hair follicle, they don’t reside in the bulge. See here a picture for reference;

      http://i1071.photobucket.com/albums/u516/sofasale1/Picture1_zpsa9451f80.png

      Now;

      “The mean length of a scalp hair follicle is 4.16 mm.”

      This is on a occipital scalp fully healthy growing anagen non-miniaturized hair follicle. Did you ever see how a miniaturized looks in the skin? Check on the right side here;

      http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/img/uploaded/2879_image977.jpg

      Do that little bulb? That shriveled up hair follicle? Now you can imagine at how much distance we are talking about in a miniaturized hair follicle. Probably less than 0.5mm. And remember you can see “epi” there above. That’s the epidermis. Exactly where immune disorders like Vitiligo and Psoriasis take place. Systemically the compound do exert biological activity there as displayed by the effectiveness. But not in the bulge? Haha ;).

      In any case I’m fairly sure that people will be obtaining that 2% tofactinib liposomal cream. So you guys will have your answer soon if JAK inhibitors will work. Probably within 6 months.u

      If tofactinib won’t work at that concentration it’s game over. I bet the next argument will be that the “vehicle is bad” or tofactinib isn’t strong enough against JAK3, but the pharmacokinetics of the compound tell a whole different story. It’s extremely potent.

      1. What if a high concentration is required for AGA and not for Vitiligo? The systemic route will bring just enough to treat AA and Vitiligo but not AGA while the topical will deliver a much higher concentration at the bulge.

  35. Why everyone is making a comment of swoops picture, i mean why are you care?
    Everyone is different, maybe he i a narcist, but then again why we care?
    The other thing is, this forum is becoming overexcited about jak inhibitors. Noone knows if itll work or not, but at least swoop is trying to explain his thoughts with scientific knowledge than just acting with his feelings.
    Its not far to attack and insult somebody just because he says something you are not agree with. The truth must not be good, then again it wont change anything to shout to the person he says the truth.
    I dont make an assumption that swoop is right by saying jak wont will not work for aga, but he explains why itll not work in a rational way, and this is the truth. Even scientific evidences can later be proven that they were false, but what will persistant is that science is made by rational thinking, and this is the truth, the opportunity to prove that an idea is false.
    For seeking the reality an assumption that turns out to be truth by a nonrational thinking is less valuable than a false assumption by a rational thinking. If you cant prove why youre right, and express yourself just with faith, its worthless, because noone will ever know why youre right and we cant work about this idea and make it better, and even know 100% thats right because we were not able to prove it to be false.
    Why i am telling this, because its ignorance to stand against the truth, but there can be more than one truth in one time, so if you are not agree with swoop than make a scientific explanation like matt is doing, and stop to insult him and making stupid comments about how he looks like how his body looks like.

  36. Why everyone is making a comment of swoops picture, i mean why are you care?
    Everyone is different, maybe he i a narcist, but then again why we care?
    The other thing is, this forum is becoming overexcited about jak inhibitors. Noone knows if itll work or not, but at least swoop is trying to explain his thoughts with scientific knowledge than just acting with his feelings,and this is the truth

  37. I wouldn’t hold too much promise on bronzu. 90% chance if it’s not going to require a prescription and it’s not going through normal clinical trials it will be no more effective than Rogaine at best. It’s probably going to have the same effectiveness of stemoxidine. If a miracle happens and this stuff works better than Rogaine or Propecia then it won’t be approved by the fda here until it goes through trials. Just my opinion

  38. Rule going forward : No pics of effectiveness and hair growth then it’s just all talk and scam until proven with evidence

  39. The percentage on the JAK inhibitor varies depending on the physician that is prescribing it. We have seen anywhere from 1-5% for the JAK inhibitors depending on what the cream is being used for.

    The JAK inhibitors are currently being used for a number of different conditions depending on who is prescribing it. Much like most drugs, the JAK inhibitors can be used for different medical conditions. For that particular patient it was for alopecia, but it can be prescribed for other conditions.

    This is chemistry rx reply on fb, who can reach them and is willing to buy a cream?

    1. HLSCC contacting ChemistryRX (A Compounding Pharmacy) on Facebook will accomplish nothing, because the product is prescription only. Get your DOCTOR to contact ChemistryRX about PRESCRIBING this drug…

  40. In alopeciaworld website they mentioned that chemistry rx topical jak cream is a compound of tofacitinib/xeljanz and costs 300 $ the tube (30 mg)

  41. Swoop, now that we all know your a 27 yearold dude telling us what the deal is about Phd scientist and what they are up to and what they are misunderstanding. I would like to congratulate you on having so many fans ie ‘baldings’ etc who think your the man with the plan. I’m sure body building puts you ahead of the Phd pack quite comfortably. Can’t wait to see you on Charley Rose. You can expect this sentiment from me about you from here on out.

    Greetings,
    Egghead <3

    1. i’m going to the next miami conference with hellouser to watch swoop tell all the international scientist whats up, shirtless, with his trademark yolo brad pitt swagger. show us betas where we went wrong dude. <3

    2. Thank you brother for the compliments. No plan here. I had my personal battle. Veni, Vici, Vidi. I have that low norwood peace of mind now.

      PhD? Means nothing to me. Evidence and science does. Dr. Hsu (follicept) had better credentials than me and probably more than 99% on this blog. That didn’t stop him from thinking that he could achieve regrowth with IGF-1, which was a lost cause from the beginning. I have just read another article of a PhD scientist who thinks that DHT gets synthesized from 17b-estradiol… And he knows the real deal to hair loss. Just increase your testosterone mate!

      http://www.totalityofbeing.com/FramelessPages/Articles/real_reason_men_lose_hair.htm#top

      Bwhahahhahaha….

      I’m just a soldier of independent guys who are courageous, who dare to use their own brain. Dare to question. uu

      Now let’s get to the evidence again shall we? After all that’s where it all boils down too. Just because you believe in a politician on his word doesn’t mean that I do.

      Who is going to get this cream guys? Are you egghead? The cream is up there for grab. Do you want to stay bald or do you want to regrow your hair? I assume you take much faith on the JAK angle. I want to see it mate. Where are you waiting for?

      Later Swoop <3.

      1. Thanks for your interesting comments Swoop. In future I will try to limit the personal attacks (from both sides), although that is work that I do not really have the motivation to do seriously all day long 🙁

  42. @Swoop how many grafts did you have when you had your HT? Also, how does the scarring look, how short can you wear your hair in the back / sides?

    1. @Spanky

      2835 grafts. A 0.7mm punch was used for donor extraction. This worked in my favor as my scarring is pretty much minimal to non-existent, because of the small punch size. I haven’t cut my hair real short at the back though. It’s a bit less dense that’s for sure. At a length of like 1 cm it covers it perfectly. I’ll probably go real short maybe even this year, that when I could really give you a objective view. At this point I can’t. If you want I’ll shoot a picture for you then, so you can judge for yourself. Later, Swoop.

  43. @Admin

    Hehe that’s ok. I don’t care for those personal attacks. I have met many of these guys in the past, who attacked me. Follicept was probably the biggest display of this, which you are probably aware of. Hell there was also a guy who made probably 300 posts in a thread only about Allergan (bimatoprost), all speculating about their stock, facility location etc. Saying how bimatoprost was going to be the next great thing 1000%. Told him it wouldn’t outperform minoxidil and it didn’t. There are many other examples.

    I’m aware that forums and a blog attracts a whole gradient of different people. It’s logical that I heat things up and some people will attack me. Like someone said here correctly, I can’t point every face to one direction. However one must understand the value of evidence and not just blatantly listening to what X person or company has to say even if it’s god himself. It’s all about evidence, not about loose talks. Primarily, this hasn’t even to do with my reasoning.

    In your defense admin, I do agree that the CEO of Aclaris seems to indicate that it works for both MPB and AA, especially in the context of 22:30. Still I remain by my standpoint.

    I mean didn’t the CEO of Thorn say that they will provide a stem cell cure for baldness? What’s the difference? Weren’t Aderans and Intercytex going to deliver our cure pretty much almost 100% a few years ago..?

    Loannidis got famous with this paper which talks about how most research is false. It is the most cited paper in PLOS medicine;

    http://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.0020124

    That’s reality too. Like I said, understand that people can and often talk from a bias perspective, whether it’s for company interest or self-interest. But honestly I bet you completely concur with this. I know you do.

    What I’m fairly surprised is how this is even possible on a legal level. I know pretty much nothing about legal stuff though…

    I hope I made my point clear.

    1. I agree with some of your points Swoop. However, a lot of my thoughts on this blog are based on my intuition. I do not believe anyone can truly understand the science fully, including yourself or matt or nasa. Even those who have experimented on animals and humans for many years are often confused at what is happening when it comes to hair.

      At one point they said that Dutasteride was the ultimate cure for hair loss since it eliminated almost all DHT from killing hair follicles. That was as clear cut as possible per scientific thought at the time. Yet Dutasteride has not even been close to a miracle cure for most people. When I visited hair loss forums for the first time 15 years ago, it was thought that Dutasteride was the end of hair loss. Many doctors and researchers agreed with that too and it made complete scientific sense. Later on people starting finding reasons for it not making complete scientific sense!

      Finally, there have been some crazy cases of hair regrowth from way too many diverse methods (e.g., an old man’s scalp getting burnt, plucking/quorum sensing, wounding, benaxoprofen, Avodart, nasa_rs’ link to 1994 study etc…) for me to reject anything outright. So there is no way I would be confident that covalently bound JAK 3 inhibitors won’t work. Much stranger things have worked for some people that initial scientific thought would deem impossible.

      FYI — I find Neal Walker/Christiano/King all 10 times more believable than the Thorne people. My intuition and nothing else.

  44. @Admin,

    Oh that’s cool. You don’t have to reject anything. You are entitled to your own opinion. You do a great job on reporting everything, please continue. However I’m just delivering the other side of the story. Quite frankly I can tell you that I know nothing of AGA. It’s too complex for me. I would rather want to believe that I know very little and that we have much more to learn. Truthfully I know every scientist would talk in this matter in this time in frame. A We still don’t even know how minoxidil works, let alone the pathway chain of AGA.

    However my reasoning on this isn’t based on AGA itself. It’s based on the drug property, and the illogical thought of the drugs not exerting their biological effect at the bulge level. While they do seem to exert their biological activity at proximity of the epidermis as seen in Vitiligo and Psoriasis. This simple reasoning totally contradicts the statement of that CEO. Furthermore I have also displayed how much of a beast tofactinib is towards JAK3. Ask any expert in pharmacokinetics, he will say the same. Remember the different itself is nihil between bulb and bulge, especially in a miniaturized hair follicle.

    For instance one could hypothesize that STAT3 is an important function for hair follicle biology. I think “matt” or nasa” is so keen on this. However one can reflect upon observational evidence and can look if people have loss of function or gain of function of the STAT3 gene. Well people are walking around on earth who have these genetic faults. Interestingly they do have problems with facial and tooth development, but their hair follicles are perfectly healthy. Based on this one could already say that in hair follicle biology STAT3 doesn’t seem to play a big role. If it would, hair retardation would be shown or at least hair alteration somewhere on the body. This is a very strong argument.

    Similarly one could hypothesize..

    If loss of function in the VDR (vitamin D receptor) gene is important for hair follicle biology …

    http://www.nature.com/bonekeyreports…ekey20145.html

    Yes it is, as you can see these people suffer from extreme alopecia. Therefore it most likely plays a prominent role.

    Other example is loss of function in HR (hairless);
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1…09.01042.x/pdf

    Again one could say that this gene plays a important role.

    Another example is APCDD1…

    EDAR also important… Also alopecia develops.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypohidrotic_ectodermal_dysplasia

    This are purely observations, crucial to the scientific method. After all that is how Hamilton theorized androgenetic alopecia.

    After all this is how Imperato- McGinley studied pseudo-hermaphrodites in the Dominican republic. He observed that they have small prostates. Looked at what genetic defect they had, found out that it was the 5ar2 enzyme and finasteride was born mate..

    “Another thing that Imperato-McGinley discovered, which would have profound implications for many men around the world, was that the Guevedoces tend to have small prostates.
    This observation, made in 1974, was picked up by Roy Vagelos, head of research at the multinational pharmaceutical giant, Merck. He thought this was extremely interesting and set in progress research which led to the development of what has become a best-selling drug, finasteride”

    Such observations have been and are still crucial to science. It is a utmost important factor of the scientific method. After that they also noticed that these pseudo-hermaphrodites had awesome hair and never got AGA. That led to them to the idea of trialing finasteride for AGA. Unfortunately one can say this treatment is pretty much still the only thing we have. This is science pur sang.

    It’s only a matter of time, before better treatments are arriving though.

    And in regards to JAK, we’ll probably have near conclusive evidence soon if it works or not :).

  45. @Swoop, thank you for answering the HT questions, pure gold! Just like im considering Fin im also considering a HT. Like I said before, your surgeon did an amazing job. From looking at your pics it also seems like I would not need as many grafts as you. I got diffused frontal thinning but still have complete coverage, no bald spots. Its crazy expensive to get FUE in Denmark but im willing to pay the extra price if I can find a good clinic.

    1. @Admin,

      Cool man. I’m going to stop everything about JAK now. I’ll promise.

      @Spanky,

      No problem mate. I did much research before going with a HT though. It’s crucial I think. Educate yourself properly before taking the plunge.. You need to be cautious with the hair transplant industry. I’m from the Netherlands and I traveled to Turkey for my HT. I “only” paid 5500 euro and that was including everything, hotel, food, flight tickets and my 2835 grafts. Generally the best surgeons are in Belgium and Turkey I think in Europe. Here is another picture;

      http://s17.postimg.org/kos9h5bkt/journeyht.jpg

      First implantation.. Then the ugly “ducking phase” :p, before having regrowth again. That’s my hair slicked back.

      Sorry for the scabbing btw, it might be a bit nasty for some :p. If you have any questions just shoot them I’ll be looking around now and then here on this blog!

  46. As we all know, Thorn Medical bought out Okyanos, which already has medical staff at hand, and approved by the Bahamian government.

    I agree with Swoop on the same reasons of skepticism but I never saw Aderans or Follicept doing any of that – throwing that kind of money around. For that reason, I think they are amateur examples that someone would read and nod without considering the circumstances.

    Dr. Irum Khan and the medical coordinator of Thorn Medical have me scheduled for an examination this year I’m supposed to hear back from them in the next 90 days about their clinicals this fall. That’s all I know. I get personally attacked too for reaching out to them being called dumb and niave personally I don’t feel stupid for being on the list. I think it would be hilarious if they were a scam. Considering the amount of money they threw out.

    1. They are not a scam, but I bet you they are not going to be able to cure mpb. They will just do some adipose cell stuff like kerastem and match it with fue. I mean if they found a way to functionally clone hairs then it would have been more advertised and on the news. Especially if b they are opening this fall. It’s only 3 months away they would have started advertising all over the place to promote unlimited hairs for ht.

      1. definitely possible, I’ll find out this fall.

        Kelopesia guy never got back with me I think that product turned out to be a scam.

        1. Kelopesia is total crap. Some Turkish actor used it and he got no results. Bronzu lotion will probably fall in the same category. I find it skeptical when Dr bronzu brags about how well it works for mpb and then just shows results of bronzu on areata patients. Why avoid mpb results. Why all the hidden bs and delays bur for areata he has no problem posting pics right away same thing goes for jak. Even though jak might have a chance for mpb. I’m at the point where if my gut tells me something is fishy then it really is.

          I just have faith in follica, histogen and sm

  47. @mjones

    You are correct. When they have a drog that possible work for AA and they say that also will work in AGA is only to create more hype. We can se it the same thing in Brotzu and jak.
    And this is because why?

    HISTOGEN in 1 year will stop talking about AGA. You will sea.

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