Update: Dr. Neal Walker just presented yet again on June 15, 2016, this time at the William Blair Conference in Chicago. Several new updates after 19:20 mins into the presentation):
- A more technical description of why topical JAK inhibitors work for AGA, but systemic ones do not work.
- He claims that some of his colleagues are using the compounded formulations of the AGA product in the initial development phase of their work and he found this to be pretty exciting.
- The AGA topical product will be slightly behind the vitiligo product when it comes to trials/development since the topical formulation for AGA is still being developed.
I was debating on writing this blog post, but the number of comments to the last post has become a bit insane and it is better to have some of the more intelligent discussions taking place here rather than continuing over there where it is now hard to find things. For this post, I will delete many of the one-line comments that entail repetitive whining, insults, sarcasm or totally unrelated material. In the next post more of the junk will be tolerated again.
My notes to the developments in the last post:
- I am now raising my estimate of Janus kinase inhibitors (JAK inhibitors) being at least a partial cure for androgenic alopecia (aka androgenetic alopecia aka AGA aka male pattern baldness aka MPB) versus not being a cure from 50/50 to 60/40. I say “partial” cure because even for alopecia areata (AA) sufferers, JAK inhibitors do not seem to work for everyone per the testimonials on alopeciaworld.com (Note: they are all taking oral JAK inhibitors over there and not topical ones as will be the case for AGA). So there is a chance that we will see the same for AGA patients in the event that JAKs do work for AGA. My gut instinct is still telling me that for those who have a lot of itching and dandruff associated with their balding, JAK inhibitors are more likely to work than for those who have hair loss without any of those symptoms. However, you should not read too much into my own amateur estimates or untested theories, but I mention them here because so many commentators have asked me about my opinion, especially regarding the 50/50 estimate.
- In the comments to the last post as well as in the various hair loss forums, a small minority of people have been very pessimistic about this news. Some have raised valid points of concern. However, some do not even seem to think that Aclaris will test JAK inhibitors on humans, even though the company clearly had two slides in their presentation saying that they will do so. Therefore, even in the most pessimistic scenario, the company will be testing these drugs on humans with AGA. In my opinion, there is a very high chance that Dr Angela Christiano (and Dr. Brett King) have already tested them on patients with AGA. After all, both doctors tested these drugs on AA patients (and vitiligo patients in the case of Dr. King) in the past without letting us know in advance. Heck Dr. King could even have tried it on himself for his own AGA. As an aside, it bears repeating Dr. King’s comment in his interview: “It’s hopeful…it’s beyond hopeful.“
- Dr. Neal Walker talked about the two new areas in which they will be testing JAK inhibitors in humans: AGA and vitiligo. To me, that almost sounds like he is implying that he is equally hopeful about the chances for each of those conditions in humans being successfully treated with JAK inhibitors. Perhaps I am reading too much there, but in any case, we already know that JAK inhibitors work for treating vitilgo in humans, courtesy of Dr. Brett King.
- Do not listen to Dr. George Cotsarelis when it comes to his skepticism about JAK inhibitors (see his comments in the CNN article linked in my post from 2014). For one, he has been involved with numerous competing technologies, companies and patents over the past two decades. Perhaps he has good scientific reason for his skepticism, but it is also human nature to favor your own work, especially when your work has entailed your whole career. If today someone suggested that a new car powering technology is far superior to electric, I would expect immediate skepticism from Elon Musk.
- One funny thing that I recently noticed is that even though Dr. Cotsarelis claimed that the immune system is not involved in MPB per his 2014 CNN article quotes, in Follica’s latest presentation (courtesy of the same Jefferies Conference via PureTech’s Daphne Zohar), they clearly classify androgenic alopecia as part of an “immune system” related problem (the immune system label is on the left side written vertically). This is strange, since Dr. Cotsarelis has been involved with Follica for many years and was in fact a co-founder!
- For that matter, do not base your decisions and optimism or pessimism on what people such as myself, commentator Matt, nasa_rs, and the many intelligent hair loss members out there state. Most people have some bias, and every single person that you listen to on the internet has no idea what Dr. Christiano, Dr. King, and now Alcaris Therapeutics’ scientists are up to in their labs. It is amazing how many times I keep getting asked whether I still think a cure will be here by 2020, whether I think JAKs will work, whether I think their are conspiracies in the hair loss world etc…I will only know for sure once I have access to insect-sized and insect-lookalike drones that I can use to spy on the various labs that are working on a cure for hair loss! Till then, my posts and comments will only give you my guesstimates and nothing more.
- Despite my great optimism, I still see some negatives, including: JAK inhibitor treatment will remain expensive (even if prices go down significantly as I expect); clinical trials will take a few years; and once you start taking JAKs, it will be a lifelong commitment. Note that regarding clinical trials, there is a remote possibility that the companies can find ways to speed up the trial process due to the fact that JAK inhibitors already treat so many medical conditions as well as alopecia areata. At the moment, it does not seem like JAK inhibitors are causing cancer in anyone, and they have probably been used in many people for at least 10 years. Ruxolitinib was first approved for human use in 2011, and Tofacitinib was approved in 2012. Both were probably tested on humans for at least around five years prior to approval. There are many other JAK inhibitor “-tinibs” out there that may be approved soon too.
Longtime JAK Superfan “nasa_rs” and his Blast from the Past
About one week ago, nasa_rs asked me to find an important link to a relatively old study that he had posted in one of his past comments on this blog. I found the link (it was in my Elon Musk post and I even replied to it at the time) and was excited to read the contents of the study, which was published back in 1994. Not sure why I never mentioned that great find before. In any case here it is. The key quote:
The hair growth stimulating effect of CsA is observed not only in normal but also in pathological conditions of hair growth, i.e. in patients with alopecia areata and also in some patients with male-pattern alopecia.
Clear evidence that immune system suppressants help hair. However, I am not sure how closely cyclosporin A and FK506 are linked to JAK inhibitors. Also, later on in the abstract they mention that topical application of FK506 induces hair growth in mice, but oral ingestion does not. A similar situation as with JAK inhibitors so more good news. However, in the abstract they do suggest that this means that the hair growth effects of FK506 may not be related to immune suppression, since oral ingestion does not help hair growth. Topical application might be impacting some other mechanism that is not well elucidated as yet per the study authors.
FYI — This was supposed to be my big blog post last week, but I first postponed it because I had delayed discussing the Dr. Rendl presentation for too long and needed to do that, and then of course I had to postpone it again due to the excellent new development discussed in the last post. Matt and nasa_rs had some discussion about the above study in the comments to the last post, but perhaps they can do that in this post now.
“Matt” (aka “matt”)
When I first started this blog, I was hoping there would be at least a few very intelligent (at least when it comes to biology and chemistry) people who post accurate highly technical comments on here every so often so as to overcome my own shortcoming as well as laziness in reading up in that area. I think user “Matt” is now the go to guy for that purpose, and we are all grateful to have him on board as can be inferred from the numerous appreciative comments that he has received in the comments to the last post. I find it funny that so many people who are appreciative of him (including myself) probably do not even understand half of what he writes. However, my intuition tells me that what he is writing is accurate and grounded in legitimate science. I would encourage people to go through all his comments in the last post (you can search via ctrl-f to find his name on each page of comments). Matt, you can repeat (i.e. paste) some of your most useful comments to the last post within this post’s comments if you want since most people will not want to search through those 500 comments. One of these days, I hope I will have time to go through your most important comments in extreme detail. FYI — “Matt” also goes by “matt”, and there was another commentator who briefly used the same name before my asking him to change it.
One of the interesting things that Matt wrote caught my eye:
“It sure looks like jak/stat signaling has a ton to do with all of hair biology (really, all of biology in general) not just AA.”
This is clear, just based on the number of conditions that the -inib drugs are already approved to treat or pending approval to treat. Moreover, there are many studies out there that suggest totally unexpected benefits of JAK inhibitors and the JAK-STAT signaling pathway (e.g., white-to-brown fat cell conversion).
362 thoughts on “JAK Inhibitor Updates and Miscellaneous Notes”
what are the possible side effects of using jak? can it be dangerous or more than fin does to us?
No doubt they can be more dangerous. Fin also already has a much longer history of use and we know the absolute worst case scenarios very well (impotence, inability to detect certain prostate tumors for those who get them). It would be a absolute joy if JAKs had a similar safety profile.
Admin, I know you do not have a science background, but why do you believe the following “my gut instinct is that for those who have a lot of itching and dandruff associated with their balding, JAK inhibitors are more likely to work than for those who have hair loss without any of those symptoms.”
Just because it seems like immune system attacks–>inflammation–>itching and dandruff. Also, Pfizer has filed for FDA approval to treat psoriasis with Tofacitinib, and to me, dandruff, psoriasis and eczema all seem related to inflammation and the immune system. I have had itching and dandruff on and off ever since I first started losing my hair:-(
Hope I am wrong and it can help everyone though.
As I posted earlier, this is a very interesting issue. After reading a lot of info/comments on the internet for years, I may conclude that most of us who indeed encounter scalp pain, experience it especially at the crown.
I hope JAKs will work everywhere, and not only in the itchy crown! If the front would not work, we are still happy that other treatments are coming in 2017 / 2018.
So people, keep supporting these other treatments as well, because in the short term, these are the ones we need until JAK will help us. BTW, they might be cheaper than JAK anyway.
For years I have been frequenting several hair loss websites and discussion forums but have never posted anything. I never cared to discuss my personal emotions or wallow in the personal pain of watching my hair fall out. It hurt and we all know it affects the way people treat us. I never cared to either argue with those who wish to state it does not matter whether we have hair or not; nor do I want to whine about how much it sucks. I also have never found the silly pessimism that these forum discussions devolve into to be worth my time. Don’t get me wrong, this website is much better than others. But still…so much pessimism. People seem to be resigned to hate their hair loss and believe it will never get better; while also captivated with the research going on to make it better.
I finally wanted to post something today because I seem to share the Admin and Matt’s growing optimism. The logic seems to be there. In addition, when you look at all the labs and companies that are working with hair loss, it seems so obvious to me that we are finally on the brink… I made a list the other day of labs, companies, and specific products that I am following, like we all are, and the list was a little over 20… These investors and scientists are not doing this just for fun.
I’m excited about the future and appreciative of what this website does. It may not be tomorrow. But I think massive improvements are finally within sight.
Thanks for your comment Aaron. Please compare your list with this one of over 50 below the World Map and let me know if I am missing anything:
Am I reading this wrong? It seems to me that they have already tested it on 7 humans with mpb, and have given the compound a name, RT1640…
Will be in my next “brief items of interest” post. Way too soon to tell.
RiverTown’s phone number is available on the web – anyone want to give them a call and ask?
One thing, perhaps……. I remember an article I read about patent applications for research that seemed to be related to hair loss and skin in general that was being done by the Army. Then another article about them working with a University in regards to the research. Maybe that is what the Wake Forest “and others” refers to….
I haven’t heard any follow up on this. Yet I can’t imagine any reason the Army would care about letting people know about what they are doing. They have no investors or competitors in a traditional sense….
FYI — someone named Leandro sends me e-mails with useful links every now and again. Yesterday he sent me this one which seems very interesting:
Could natural products help with JAK inhibition? If so, I would assume that they would need to be used topically in correct formulations that do not exist presently.
Barberry (B. Vulgaris), active compound Berberine, is a JAK inhibitor. It’s sold as a dietary supplement, both in tincture form, and as Berberine HCL in a gelcap. I got the tincture from a local Vitamin Shoppe and am using it as-is as a topical. Its only been a few days so I can’t comment on efficacy, I can only say it’s got a vivid orange color so it’s not useable as a leave-in.
Could these also be natural JAK inhibitors?:
“Is there any Tyrosine kinase inhibitors from plant source?”:
“Janus kinase (JAK) is a family of intracellular, nonreceptor tyrosine kinases…”
Curcumin may be a general JAK inhibitor but it isn’t “selective to JAK3.” If you look at the June 8th post on this blog, the JAK pharma researchers are specifically looking for “covalently bound highly selective JAK3 inhibitors.” I don’t understand the science so I’m not sure what the significance of “covalently bound” is, but Berberine is a “highly selective JAK3 inhibitor” with a surprising amount of studies published about it that seem to me to indicate it’s similar to Pharma JAK3 inhibitors, for example efficacy in weight loss as mentioned in this blog post, psoriasis, and arthritis.
You may want to read this article.
Provides some guidance on which form is effective as a topical. At a cursory reading in the net this is actually very safe for humans as a topical,
Article which I linked as well seems relevant to creams which are already on the market as herbal psoriasis treatment. I may troll Walgreens to see if anything looks good, after all I’ve heard of people using keto creams on hair as a nizoral alternative. Also need to try oregon grape extract to see if it has less of a vivid color than Barberry. Both barberry and oregon grape can be made into wines, interesting.
FYI – I started on a Barberry extract regimen yesterday. Just once a day after shower. The thing stains easily. But I want to try it for 3 months. I will keep this group posted. Sorry I wont do before after photos. I already have a hair transplant and have had limited success with Vitamin D3. I am going to continue vitamin D3 and this treatment. Hope this works before I turn 45. Otherwise I am taking the nights watch.
From that link above…..”the main component isolated from the medicinal plant Nigella sativa, thymoquinone (TQ), was shown to inhibit both constitutive and IL-6-induced STAT3 phosphorylation. ”
Any thoughts on this?
Hey guys. I posted a couple of times already and it seems not well accepted by some.
Nevertheless… I state my own thoughts and for me it seems that the cure/treatment is already available but being surpressed for some any oher reason. I work in the healthcare business and believe me that the amount of money pharmacy and aesthetical companies they do is stratospheric….in comparison to what we are looking to obtain.
Sorry for the pessimism but my gut says that whilst we look for a cure from afiliated researchers…We wont get anywhere.
Time to get somebody with knowledge and start doing the tests independently from any other interests such as money etc…
Guys if you have a lot of money…and you can afford whatever you want…do you really care for people suffering from mpb?!?!? We are not trying to get a cure from cancer…th his is aesthetical…and you can live your lives with it..hence NOT PRIORITY!
Moreover….in addition to the jak you have been all talking about…This stuff touches your chromosomes. ..that’s not good. That’s code of your life..you u are..genetics. don’t touch that!
So basically u are telling me that if you touch your genetic coding…to produce hair…then you could also ..not have cancer..etc… hmmm something tells me that you re trying to find a cure where you will not find it. Or in couple of months they will say…”we we re wrong”… u can’t touch that bla bla bla.
Lotion as Mr brotzu is claiming…i believe! Might be possible to recover your hair 5 years..because you can rewrite your cells from a certain period but not make them write in the future with all the e xternal factors and more important, the longevity and impredicatbility(dont know if this is a word) of your cells.
This is what I think.
Sorry if you don’t agree and will be looking fowsrd for any new developments.
Admin. Great blog and it is nice that somebody takes ownership and tries to put people like us on the loop…
“genetics. don’t touch that!” All here we want to change our genetic xD
You obviously know nothing about the human body, and modifying your chromosomes in one area is not going to kill you. We all start out with 46, 23 from mom and 23 from dad…the rest is left up to mitosis.
Chemotherapeutic medications alter DNA, ever heard of doxorubicin and daunarubicin? They are interecalating agents that bind in between the purine and pyrimidine base pairs of the DNA double helix, and thus inhibit replication and transcription and prevent further cell growth.
I have a BS in Bioliogy, minor in chemistry, am in my 3rd year of pharmacy school, and I work at an internationally known academic medical center (that the admin has mentioned about before on here)
@ Phil Collins – what are your thoughts on the potential of a topical JAK inhibitor for people with AGA? And, would you have any idea how to create a topical vehicle which could be used to start some testing?
Has anyone emailed Dr. Angela CHRISTIANO or Aclaris to try and find out more information on :
1- The topical vehicle they are making of JAK
2- The results of JAK testing of people with AGA.
I was thinking about emailing her, but don’t want to waste my time if others have already and she hasn’t responded. I live in NYC and was thinking of stopping by Columbia to see if I could get any information or meet with her.
Guys please check inhibitors but proteasome inhibitors.
Yesterday 11:03 PM#11
The same biological processes involved in bone growth are the same processes involved in hair growth.* During investigations into PS1 peptide and its role on bone growth it was discovered during its pre-clinical screening for efficacy to foster bone growth that one of the outstanding side effects was to promote significant hair growth in mice,
PS1 upregulates bmp2 but has no effects on bmp4 alone. therein bmp2 upregulation increases noggin which downregulates bmp4 creating a net effect toward potent hair and bone regrowth.
It has been shown that transient upregulation of beta-catenin for only one day strongly triggered the telogen to anagen transistion in adult mice.* It was also shown that upregulation for longer periods resulted in hypertropic development of existing hair follicles and even follicular neogenesis. This suggests substantial reversal of hair loss due to androgenic alopecia might be achieved by a short course of treatment that substantially upregulates beta-catenin expression.*
In a following study, it was shown that beta-catenin is degraded by the proteosome and hence that beta-catenin upregulation can be achieved by proteosome inhibition, such as via PS1.
Chronic activation of beta-catenin in resting (telogen) hair follicles resulted in changes consistent with induction of an exaggerated, aberrant growth phase (anagen). Transient activation of beta-catenin produced a normal anagen. The data lend strong support to the notion that a Wnt/beta-catenin signal operating on hair follicle precursor cells serves as a crucial proximal signal for the telogen-anagen transition.
“Moreover, there are many studies out there that suggest totally unexpected benefits of JAK inhibitors and the JAK-STAT signaling pathway (e.g., brown-to-white fat cell conversion).”
Admin, I think you meant “white-to-brown fat cell conversion”? Not that I even knew what it was, but the link says that much, hehe.
Would using Jak also take over the dht angle of mpb? Would we still need to take Propecia to stop the hairs from miniaturizing while Jak promotes hair growth ? Or will Jak be the ultimate solution that will override any dht, immune, inflammation effect mpb has on our follicles? It would be nice to just use Jak topical and not use Propecia or Rogaine anymore.
I understand nothing of what Nasa and Matt said.
But I like it.
(like Eureka by E.A.Poe)
Thanks for the work.
I hope FOLLICA delivers thick, coloured terminal hairs, otherwise Cots & co would just have been wasting everyone’s time and I will really start believing that their only motive is to make money from research funds, not actually delivering real solutions.
Come on Follica. You’ve been at this for a decade now. It’s time you delivered by 2018.
Is weird they say that systemic jak dont work for AGA but the oral jak will be used to test worst case of AA and the topical for “patchy alopecia”.
Thanks admin for clearing things up, I still trust the king of hair loss but I hope he is wrong about jak
king of hair….lol
Cotsarelis- The Greek God of Androgenic Alopecia. I will climb mount Olympus this summer when I go to Greece and sacrifice Paul Phoenix and nasa in exchange for the mercy and a cure for baldness haha.
I’m just teasing you Paul and nasa:)
Great job friend
I hope Cots has some good news for us. Dude needs to show some empathy towards us and tell it to us straight. 100 h/cm2 or not? Thick terminal hairs or not? 2018 or not?
If wounding turns out to be bs I will ask myself why Cots clung onto the idea of wounding instead of diving into the area of cloning regeneration.
Can I ask again, do we know any of the ilkley side effects of JAK? I would have thought there was a lot of optimism around Finasteride before it was released. I am one of the unlucky people who has suffered post finasteride syndrome, and am very keen to find alternatives to halt/reverse MPB
Hey admin, great post again. What I love about this place and yourself is that it’s all reasoned and rational (apart from the crazies who pop up). Too much time is devoted on other sites to “bro science” and frankly baseless observations.
There is hope on the horizon and it could be Follica. But then again, it could fall flat and disappoint everyone. My gut instinct says it won’t but that’s all it is at the minute. A gut instinct.
Jaks could be the answer too. But at least with Follica, there is a timeline now. It won’t stop folks being overly optimistic or pessimistic but it’s something to look forward too.
And who knows what could pop up in the meantime! Besides, money drives an awful lot and there is simply too much money to be made for this problem to go on much longer.
@admin, thank you for yet another interesting post. Fingers crossed that we’ll see / hear more news on this topic very soon:-)
Also a big thank you to matt and nasa_rs!!!
Tomorrow neil walker will speak in a conference
Which one. URL?
Admin Please change the website name to hairlosscure2016-17
If Neil Walker was confident about Follica, why would he have supported buying the rights of jaks based research from Christiano for aga? Does it mean he doesn’t think Follica is going to be effective?
Perhaps I haven’t been following this closely enough, so my apologies for not knowing. Above, you’ve said that jak inhibitors did not work for everyone with AA. That’s the first time I’ve heard of such failures. This significantly cuts into my optimism, because I know that a treatment would have to work for everyone in order to work on me (I simply have always had the worst case “luck” with hair loss in all aspects).
Anyway, can you please point me in the direction of articles stating that jak inhibitors have failed for some AA patients? I hope to understand that further.
As always.. thank you
Hey slick rick, not your fault at all since I did not clarify that point. Dr. Christiano and Dr. King tested JAK inhibitors on very few AA patients and they seemed to work on all.
However, now there are many others taking them and posting results on the alopeciaworld.com forums. All of these AA sufferers are getting the drugs from doctors (including Dr. King) if I recall. However, while there are many miraculous results posted, some are also not seeing results after a few months. Anyway, I have not visited those forums for a while, but my guess is that the majority of people are seeing results thankfully.
It should also be noted that those AA people are taking oral JAK inhibitors. Perhaps topical ones will work for all AGA patients, fingers crossed:-)
Admin, thanks for your quick response!
I’m somewhat relieved to hear that those failed results are unofficial (though possibly reliable if there are enough of them). We all know there are parties out there rooting against hope of a real treatment, so we can’t always trust anonymous results.
Anyway, some points of optimism!..
1. As you’ve said, any AA patient having trouble with oral jak inhibitors might have success with topicals (since AGA was said to work exclusively with topical.. maybe that more superficial target logic carries over to some with AA).
2. We know that jak inhibitors improve expression for dp cells directly (amazing actually), so I’m hopeful that the only issue is just delivering to the target correctly in the skin.
3. One purpose of the Aclaris clinical trials for both AA and AGA is to optimize the regimen and possible method of applying topicals for everyone. This should result in higher success (I already think the company is confident in the treatment or they wouldn’t have quickly started up these trials with big funding).
Okay, enough speculation for now.. I’m keeping the faith! Fingers crossed and all. Thanks again.
Best place to Know that will come to us all from the jak in AA. Some of the user can talk about the trial they are in. This is because AA in under Patient-Focused Focused Drug Development Iniciative. Aka Pfddi
Susana.. thanks! I’ll look into these cases
Hey admin what if you have had an FUE procedure done. Would Jak inhibitors work for those of us who have had transplants done? My fue did not work out and now I have some scarring on my scalp mainly the recipient site.
Unfortunately, there is no way I can know the answer to that:-( I do not even know for sure if JAKs will work for AGA. 60 percent chance is my guess.
If they work they can only regenerate existing follicles, not create new ones. Maybe follica’s wounding technique can help…
I would say it would definitely work if u had fue. That’s if it would of worked in the first place. If all the needle pricks the doctor made from donor n recipient areas didn’t grow u wouldn’t even notice. The untouched folicules would grow. Trust me the doctor hardly touched ur hair. Probably touched 5% of folicules at most. AM I missing something here?
FUE is the worst thing you cant do. That White spots will never be go dissapear. Hair is a product of a organ. You ripoff this organ to move it to other place. And some ppl are talking that is posible that you destroy this organ that not grow Hair when you put the hair from de donar area.
tomorrow dr walker will speak
jak inhibitors: maybe a cure?
replicel/shiseido/histogen: nothing at moment
tsuji labs: total cure with unlimited hair but… in 10 years???
takashi tsuji in 10 years? how many years will have??? very strange….will be an old man…
in resume: fingers crossed with JAK!!!!
Lol… I’m not sure why you guys have such a hard time following this let alone making incorrect statements. I know it’s a bit of your ego and skepticism but really… nothing at moment?
Let me correct the above –
jak inhibitors: Positive results for AA, believed to work for AGA. Will begin trials for AGA in the future. AA has an IND study being submitted to FDA.
replicel/shiseido/histogen: Planned release for treatments in 2018.
tsuji labs: More research/ technology needed… Possible 10 year timeframe.
Brotzu in 2017 for maintance.
Cb for maintance- 2021.
Histogen,Replicel,Follica- supposedly 2018, probably in 3589.
Jak- we dont know if really regrowth hair. At least 7-10years ( yes guys- clinical trials)
Tsuji- first possible cure. He will start trials in next few years. About 10 years. Plus probably enormous costs and only few clinics in Japan(at the beginning)
Gene therapy- 5-10 years away in 2080.
And as I said check PS1 which was claimed as holy grail. Some guys are testing it.
AGA is not cureable(except gene therapy and unlimited hair cloning). It is treatment dependent.
My guess and expectations? Hoping for brotzu to replace fin and dut ( if you cant tolerate). Than adding Cb as it will be on shelfs. And keep finger crossed for PS1 which is being tested on private forum. It makes dead follicles alive. We need to wait. Than after 15 years on brotzu and PS1 I will fly to Japan for some cloned hair. After costs reduction and better access. I can still use my donor hair and transplant them in big density if Tsuji confirm collaboration with any company and further trials.
What is PS1?
My hope is on Follica being successful and growing 100 hairs per cm2. I do hope they are good on their word and is finally released in 2018, after their final trial. It will certainly be cheaper than a ht.
I hope Tsuji starts clinical trials in 2020, everything runs smoothly and there are no delays and it is released earliest possible 2023/24.
Brotzu lotion is a wild card for 2017… I don’t expect much from it even though Brotzu said it can reverse 5 years of hair loss which seems extremely unlikely to me and if it were the case he would have shown a pic of an aga responder instead of the child with aa.
Don’t expect anything to come from replicel’s technology – UNLESS Shiseido scientists can find a way to substantially improve on it by adding other more effective technologies.
Remember, Tsuji said begin trials by 2020, so it could be earlier than that!
Read about OSH101
Man one of these treatments needs to finally come out already. Any one of them just so we know there is some sort of realness to all this. It’s getting freaking annoying. What happened to Turkish topical? Any new updates on bronzu?
Phil Collins. How is your rice bran topical coming along? Tea tree minoxidil working out? My hairline is just getting obliterated so fast with Rogaine, crown is getting thinner to since new years. Not sure what else to do now . Just watch it fall off I guess.
for The Turkish product Kelopesia, they are trying to refine the cream in room temperature, because the one they have is more efficient @ 4°C.
for the release date some says in December some say in 5 month and some says it’s coming soon. but not official update from the release date.
for the brotzu lotion, many people email FIDIA which is the Farmaceutic company which will produce & commercial this product began a few week ago a trial with volunteer for the lotion in order to test it out and figure out the best dosage.
Are you saying that Fidia started trials for the Brotzu lotion a few weeks ago? Did you get this information from a site or from Fidia?
You have link of the trial?
Things are going rather well actually. There has been noticeable thickening, and I now only use the tea tree oil 1-2 a week diluted in coconut oil. Still apply minoxidil before bed. I will also say that I use DS laboratories revita shampoo every day which I honestly think helps.
I’m going to hold off replying to any other questions regarding JAK/stat till the weekend when I will finally have a few days off work. I have access to primary full text articles and clinical trials regarding these medications, and am eager to research and share
Personaly admin I think some of the negative comments help us keep grounded. Just not to many! Gud work admin!
Guys im just tired of getting my hopes up. We get big news every few months, get excited, then it takes forever to get trials started. Then trials finally get under way and then it takes another year or two just to get feedback. It is tiring….why hasn’t setipiprant trial started? The medicine is already made. What is taking so damn long? If this turns out to to be somewhat effective we may be able to get hands on it via black market ot Canada or whatever and just follow the trial guidelines. I have a feeling it will be less effective then finasteride but more effective then minox….which is fine with me!! Just please stop pushing these release dates back.
One more jak trial for AA that are recruting only to teste safety. So if you have AGA you can participate. Is in Australia and the result are in december. Some in alopecia world are trying to in. Someone from Australia here?
This trial is for AA patients and it is a oral JAK inhibitor and not for AGA.
Yes from Oz here, will engage them and find out more about it.
On the topic of kelopesia and brontzus lotion, upon release does anyone know how someone out of turkey or italy would obtain them? Would they have to be fda approved before someone in the usa could buy?
They will be sold as cosmetics so no need for fda approval.
Always feel skeptical when something sold as a cosmetic and not a drug. Hopefully I can be proven wrong though
In the clínical trial description you can read that they are looking for person with or without AA/AGA. If for testing safety only. And yes is oral. I dont say opposite.
When Christiano put a piece of human scalp with miniaturised hair follicles onto a host mouse and applied topical JAK inhibitors the follicles started to grow again normally.
I thought that was proof it worked, but if hair loss has a large immune system component, then it is not proof because the mouse’s immune system had to have been suppressed with anti rejection drugs to accept the graft, and anyway, it would only be a mouse’s immune system, not a human’s. Or am I missing something?
Admin, this is quite interesting and it seems to hit on the theme of how long things take to come to market:
Anyone know why the forum hairsite.com is so negative and skeptical about future treatments/cure?
Phil Collins. That’s great news that you are seeing some thickening. Any new growth at the hairline or temples? How long were you using Rogaine before you added tea tree oil and rice bran co2 topical? I’ve been using Rogaine for a year and a half and I’m just losing ground even on Propecia too.
Been using minoxidil for a few years now. Sides are coming in a little thicker, hairline has gotten a little better (a close colleague of mine complimented me on my hair today).
I truely believe that stress (increased cortisol) and inflammation cause hair loss. Modern day society is becoming more and more competitive, and more and more insults are now thrown back and forth. We live in an extremely superficial society, and believe it or not anxiety is now the number one “emotional” disorder in the US, not depression. Although, now a days, I rarely see a patient’s medication list that is lacking some sort of psychotropic medication (whether it be an SSRI, SNRI, benzodiazepine, TCA, dopamine agonist, psychostimulant, antipsychotic, histamine blocker (hydroxyzine pamoate which is used for anxiety), and many more)
It looks like these jak powders can be purchased really cheap from alibaba. If only we had an idea on a delivery system and could experiment with various creams. I bet we could move this thing along much quicker and sell on openbazaar or something similar if/when we found a combination that worked. Even if we had the procedures for upcoming trials that we could even minic them ourselves. Slight variations and months of applying for each. What are the known risks to these jaks when applied topically?
Nice find. But, how do we even know they are selling the real stuff? A lot of online companies sell fake products or mix the real product with a lot of filler substances.
Anyone want to buy a shipment and get it tested? Or, know where you could send a sample to get it verified for purity?
Can anyone with a Chemistry/BIO degree figure out how to create an effective topical solution from this?
I share the same concerns. A purity test would be wonderful, or even if we could find an overseas company with a solid reputation. Unfortunately I have no clue if these are possible.
This site has become far and away the best resource on this topic. So refreshing compared to the others peddling archaic garbage like hair transplants and poison like Finasteride/Dutasteride. Keep up the excellent work! Great to be able to keep up with the status of the upcoming treatments!
Thanks TJT, but I will also be talking about hair transplants, finasteride and dutasteride this year (and did so in the past too). In fact there is an important link to dutasteride testimonials on the right side of this blog if you are viewing on a desktop/laptop. For many people, these options are very useful while they await the cure.
dr walker will speak today!!!
William Blair’s 35th Annual Growth Stock Conference
June 15, 2016, 9:20 a.m. CDT
Four Seasons Hotel, Chicago
Thanks was writing about it when your comment came through lol
a new post for today?
Nope. Added on top of last one.
are you listening the conference?
I hope to JAK could work on AGA and FAGA.
If alopecia was cured, many many people will be more happy.
nosyu, I hope you read this and can maybe help:
I think this article is just summary of some studies we still know, so nothing is new information.
For example, Japanese government plans clinical trial of hair regenerative in 2019~2020.
In this figure, “毛包” means hair.
So replicel won’t b out in 2018 in Japan. 2 years would’ve went by fast. If the push back is true this is sad
Someone PM’ed me to respond here. I don’t know why exactly. I’ll do it anyway. That technical description of why topical ones work and systemic ones don’t is laughable. This one is fairly easy to predict. In fact I have never been more convinced of a upcoming treatment that it isn’t going to work at least for male AGA (not FPHL necessarily, TE related conditions). Modulation of hair cycle could occur, it’s unlikely imo, but it isn’t going to work better than minoxidil.
Admin you was wondering why people would believe any skeptic over a multi million company. I think you miss the crux here. Think deeply and you will understand why.
Stay grounded in reality guys. Science is always about evidence, remember that.
As such admin what do you think of a bet? You think 60/40 right? Want to do a bet versus me? I’ll give you odds that will be heavily +EV for you. I’ll say that it won’t be better than minoxidil… And you will stand on the side that it will work better than minoxidil. What do you say? Dead serious here!
Furthermore good coverage of upcoming treatments on this site. It’s a good thing that more companies are trying to get involved, obviously because the market is surging.
Thanks swoop, but where did I say that a multi million dollar company is more believable than a skeptic?
I would definitely take the bet if I were a bit wealthier:-) In any case, might be 4 years before we get the product to test, but perhaps I will take the bet in 2 years if you are still up.
FYI — Do you also go by “swooping” on other forums?
Swoop.. You attempt to make several points, but fail to provide proof with examples or scientific backing for what you say. It’s ironic that you are basically doing the same thing you criticize these companies for doing ;) Instead, you make a wager with the admin because you are such a genius. Your entire comment is basically a fallacy and then a challenge, like that provides more credibility to your statement. lol
Well you said something along the lines of “Don’t understand why people would trust somebody over a multi million dollar company or researchers”. Or something like that. It was in that post with many comments so I’m not going to scan every comment again if you don’t mind haha.
Anyway sure.. I’m not wealthy too, but I’ll put up my away if I think it’s +EV for me ;).
Yes, I’m swooping or swoop on the forums. Anyway let’s hope I talk complete bullocks. I mean I can’t know for sure obviously. But remember it’s all about evidence, which is nowhere to be seen currently. Keep up the good work!
Thanks. If I said that, it’s completely wrong. Way too many companies have been wrong in the past. My post on the Bahamas will show you what I think about some of them. However, I do take companies affiliated with Christiano, Tsuji, Cotsarelis etc…a bit more seriously.
R people post to trust u over researchers? Lol this guy. I don’t even read his comments on hlt. All he talks bout is minoxidil n propecia and says nothing will come out for 10 years. Don’t kno Wat u doin on the forums then broski
And enter the bro science brigade…
Seriously, and you make this point yourself, you can’t know for sure and no one can. But folks like yourself continually act like you have some knowledge that these academics don’t. That’s not to say academics can’t be wrong but seriously, stop. If you’ve been involved in research in this area, then I’ll bow down to your expertise but otherwise, you know dick about what Neal Walker is doing. Same goes for all the positive folks too. Unless you see the results from a clinical trial, we just don’t know.
Let’s just wait and see cause nobody knows nothin’ till some company proclaim, with proof, that “hey y’all, we have a viable treatment for hairloss that won’t need repeat applications and won’t totally break the bank or scar your head with invasive surgery”.
That day is coming. Just probably gonna be a ways off if Follica aint up to much and the Jak thing turns out to be duff.
What do you think about PS1(aka Neosh, Osh 101)?
Some guys are testing it on private forum.
Lewandowski, can you tell us what forum? I asked on a private forum last night and everyone keeps saying it wont work, and that it was tested years ago and failed. Where are you hearing this?
I dont know. One member from polish forum has access to that forum. He is legit.
i still find it funny that everyone talks about jak and expecting high promises without any single photo.
are we really that desperate and forcing ourselves to believe? or someone has a photo somewhere showing AGA is cured?
even admin can not stay impartial here. he already indicated 60 to 40 odds are in favor of cure.
You are a weird guy, donitello. If they had no evidence, their stock wouldn’t be so high. They just haven’t shown you, bud. They obviously have shown investors… You don’t put 440 million into something for no reason…
So true, this is a forum for the keenly interested. If there was proof it would be blasted out on the front of the Daily Mirror and you wouldn’t need to come here! And anyway, the more you know, the lower your threshold of proof.
@donitello. Yes, people with MPB aren’t happy with current treatments…Minoxidil and Propecia give you a poor results, a lot of side effects, you have to take daily a drug…all inconvenients. But, Minoxidil and Propecia are the past of MPB treatments. Better treatments are coming in a few years.
Cool. I’m following this blog. Looking forward to it, gotta run now!
People are indeed just starting to trial it. So you’ll have your answer soon I guess :)!
But is there any science behind it? Has it potential to beat minox? Thanks.
@Paul: I am not saying anything about fin or minox or even better treatments. I am just saying if there is any photo… Did they try it on AGA? where is this optimism coming from? just because it worked on Alopecia?
do not look at value. that is one thing. It can be all a stock game after all in order to sell your company for a better price. focus on the product not money…
Don’t look at the value of a company and draw any conclusions as to its value? Oh okay… I won’t do that… lol
Welcome swoop to this great blog, amaze us with your knowledgable comments
Admin where i can see the New presentation? Please
So they just confirmed for the 2nd time that it works:-O Really really great news!!
Did Mr. Walker word it more clearly than he did last time?
Yes, I have approx. 2 g pharmaceutical grade tofacitinib citrate. Perhaps I will try it. What Could Possibly Go Wrong?
Hi all ,
Long time lurker ,
I have been balding for 3,5,7,……….shit 14 years .
Been through all the stages now for past 3 years rock the number #1 and con honestly say my hair anxiety has almost vanished ,
However like all here the option to have nice glossy healthy hair would be a dream come true as we all would love the option to mix it up at times and having hair is an absolute moral as we all know .
Just giving my thoughts – I have always had “good” feeling that follows will make it through with something substantial .
I have a peek at the stock markets , and in my reports I get issued their stock ” pure tech ” has been listed as a “strong buy ” by various stock analysts .
It gives me hope coming here as we are all in this together , and although it’s a secret battle for most ,
It feels when I log on here we are sharing the load and having the admin updates so frequently and all you intelligent people giving your thoughts it really does seem like we are nearing something special ,
Fingers crossed ,
Keep this site going and hope we can all put it our before and afters before to long ,
Regards. Matt…(new Matt)
“Follica ” not follows – spellcheck mistake
Hey admin, on the pdf presentation they show that AA clinical trials will begin in the 2nd quarter of 2017. You mentioned that AGA trials should begin shortly after.
Are we talking about 3Q-4Q 2017 before preclinical trials even start??? If so its going to be a loooong time before we see this
They did not mention when the AGA trials will begin, but they said they will lag the vitiligo trials/development.
Latest update is pretty exciting stuff! I hope jak can bring back a nw6 to a solid nw2 because in 4 years or so if this hits the market most of us will be in a much hair loss situation we are in now. If this can’t grow massive amount of hair it will be only good for new hair loss sufferers.
I remember neoshi. Psi. It was the biggest craze back in 2007. It hit phase 2 with awesome results then a company came in bought it and then shelved it. This is the sort of reason why I believe in conspiracy theories. Why shut down a successful product ? Why couldn’t this hit phase 3 then the market? Hair loss industry is so shady. Anyone remember intercytex? That was a big craze as well. They got bought out at phase 3 and never heard of again. Someone is blocking effective treatments. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the reason jak is taking forever to start trials. Why start virtigo trials first then mpb. Why do all these companies push other trials first like CB for acne. JAK for AA and Vertigo, Brontzu for AA. I’m sure I’m missing others. Anywhere fingers crossed out luck goes our way this year.
I hope that this PSI will be efective and than be possible to buy on black market. Fu*k propecia, rogain and HT.
Imagine that after using PSI you need only use Anti androgen.
Fingers crossed guys.
Im excited that it works but more than annoyed bout the fact that we still dont have a clue whether or not they can get this to market faster due to the fact that Janus Kinase is already approved for other treatments.
What is the updated and more technical explaination for why only topicals work on AGA? The presentation audio doesn’t look to be available.
I search for the same and cant fine nothing
I was always skeptical about these conspiracy theories , but after looking up intercytex, an seeing it was bought out by a pharmaceutical company, and similar stuff with psi and other companies that had promising treatments and were is phase 2 of testing just disappeared??.
This all seems like a common… occurrence every time there is some new product, buzz and some hope and excitement about them, they seems to disappear after 3 of 4 years of people waiting, and hearing the same excuses about testing takes 5-10 years.
I’m really hoping someone with some knowledge on these past proposed treatments can explain why they just fell off the maps?
Could there possibly be any truth to these conspiracy theories?
Pharmaceutical companies do have billions of dollars have have one of the strongest lobbies in the government. Its also clear they are in bed with the FDA and if they want to get something passed that will make them millions, the FDA will approve it, regardless of safety. So maybe there is some truth here?
I would love to hear some serious responses.
Finally someone who understands what I am saying about conspiracy theories. It’s accurate and makes sense. Fda and pharmaceutical companies work hand in hand to make each other rich. I’m afraid that brontzu will work great but will never see the daylight. Some big company will buy them out and shelf it. It’s been since 1997 when Propecia came out and there has been over 10 different promising hair loss treatments. You are telling me none of them worked better than Rogaine and propecis? Come on…
I agree with you to some extent, but at least now we have more potential treatments than ever before. Hopefully one will be the cure with no conspiracies involved.
I really hope so admin. We all deserve our hair back:) If you don’t mind me asking what nw level are you? How long have you been balding? Are you taking any treatment like Rogaine or Propecia?
mjones, I take Minoxidil (Rogaine) and Finasteride (5mg generic pill split into 4). I used to take the Finasteride only once every 2 days, but lately its more like 5-6 days a week. I used to put the Minoxidil on my scalp daily, but for the past year, maybe 2-3 times a week. I have somewhat diffuse thinning all over the scalp, but the front is moving up more rapidly these days. The crown has improved in the past several years due to Finasteride, but still not great. I think some of the hair I lost there starting 10 years ago has never come back. I might start Dutasteride (perhaps topical if available and reliable) in the near future.
Thank you admin. Yeah I am looking forward to topical dut or fin. Anything that can boost some growth or maintenance with thickening. Sounds like we have the same type of thinking pattern
I definitely believe in the conspiracy theories, not just for curing MPB but other treatments as well. The only problem with this is that there are A LOT of people working on the cure for this both private company’s and public individuals. If somebody has something they need to keep moving forward because somebody will eventually have the cure. The money this will creat worldwide is astronomical. Like I said before, give me my original hair back, I’ll pay you 20k. And there are A LOT of, “Me’s” out there….
People are complaining about finasteride safety profile which I can understand, to put all their hopes in JAK ?!!
That is exactly why this is going to be a topical so it has minimal systemic effects. And, if a new JAK inhibitor is developed that is selective for a particular JAK over the others this even further lowers the risk. Either way, blocking DHT to me is about as ancient as it gets science wise. Right now the best option is a 5ar selective inhibitor (finasteride) but I think in the future targeting pathways much farther down than androgens is what most guys want.
The only thing that has a chance of release is follica and maybe histogen within 2 years in my opinion. SM went completely quiet. Jak probably won’t start trials till next year. Add 7 years of trials. 2023 :)
Mjones maybe not. Some of phases of the trial from jak are made in 1 year. But Yes is normal the time you say in New trials
Not to mention a jaks treatment will probably be too costly for most to use long term.
I’m hoping for follica in the near term and tsuji cloning later. Yes the cloning treatment will be expensive, but at least it will be a one-off expense and permanent results, unlike jaks which would probably need to be taken continuously.
i received email from aclaris today:
We appreciate your interest in our company and drug development programs. At this time, we have no ongoing clinical trials for androgenic alopecia.
For current information and the status of our clinical trial programs, information may be found on the Aclaris website at http://www.aclaristx.com.
Yup. As implied. They are still compounding the topical product.
I believe you said that Aclaris will start compounding the topical solution to treat AGA after the trials and development of the product to treat AA and then vitiligo; however, is there a chance that the formula will be the same? Or would one think it would have to be altered based upon the condition they are fighting? Because if we could just use the solution once it is developed for AA, the timelines would look at a lot more appealing
Technically it should be the same method as AA since the topical main goal is to reach the follicle. The only thing that might be different is the actual compound topical for AGA. If they add different ingredients to AGA topical than AA. If it’s the same then I can totally see doctors prescribing jak off label for AGA when it’s available for AA. That could save us 2 years.
We need something now though to keep us holding on to our hair. 2 to 5 years can make a huge difference on hair loss progression if our current treatments aren’t effective anymore
I buy Tofacitinib this week. My contact has me rewrite:
« ” Hello ! I saw X today. He showed me his command sheets and I could see the price and the process.
So if you’re willing to try … The tofacitinib 5 mg to 15 mg = possibly $ 100 $ 37 The dmso … plus taxes and transportation is $ 40 … According to what I saw it would be best to order for two months which would amount to $ 200 per month .So, the risk is $ 400 to order. but you will in two months.
For efficiency to 400/500 mg I spoke orally. Because by direct application to the scalp concentration is unknown, but according to the information of X is very good.
The tofacitinib is also available in 25 mg. So it is up to 40/50 mg concentration … but taken is $ 400 instead of $ 100. Is it all worth it given the cost …
I saw only the dmso can dissolve Tofacinitib. So it is essential.
The recommendation is to make the mixture and apply to two days. ” »
Do you think I should try the all out and opt for 50 mg?
The lab can also procure Setipiprant and Allergan. For Setipiprant is systemic (oral pill). Do you think it might give me a boost and it would be totally useless?
Come on! Help me a little that I enligne properly and I promise you a detailed report with photos after a few months of testing.
William are you SURE youre contact is legit? That seems rather cheap.
How did you meet this contact, if you dont mind me asking?
It’s my father. The contact of my father is his best friend. His best friend, a ambulance man, is in contact with a laboratory. This guy has a lot of contact. He have discount on merchandise. The lab guys provide that are related to laboratories that they predict a coming revolution in the treatment of baldness. The laboratory makes no creams or other for baldness but manufactures ingredients controlled by these laboratories. That’s why they are aware of what is coming in the future.
I think for your own personal safety you shouldn’t be testing these chemicals on yourself. Not untill there is medical studies published and you can certify you’re getting legit products.
It will be too long and perhaps it will never see the day. In addition, I am on the verge of suicide. I want to get my hair to go to my university courses this autumn and to be able to work. I ‘m locked in my house so I am ashamed of my baldness. I just want my baldness cure as soon as possible . But I need information ( dosage / ingredient ) to be sure it works . Help me please. I just want information.
William, please don’t despair! Believe me, you will think differently in your 30s.
I am 24 years old and I have loss all my hair because I took medicament too long time at very high dose. It’s a nightmare. I just want my hair. I ‘d be willing to do anything.
Ok William, but believe me things change in your 30s a lot. Your emotions will be very different.
30s? I’m french quebecker, I don’t understand all in English.
Is too unfair . I have not yet had time to live my youth.
At least you are young:-) with current scientific progress, almost no chance you will die before 90.
But… will I get my hair? I don’t want to live miserable.
Yes u will by age 30. My guess.
It’s not funny. I want help for a treatment and not help for think differently.
Ok. I was serious.
Sorry about your situation. Believe me people in their 30s and 40s are actually in more bad situation than you. You are fortunate as there is bigger chances that you will see a cure in your 30s and others will reach 50s. Please don’t take any step you regret later on when cure comes, hope you understand this!
Use a concealer for now, like xfusion or toppik, and don’t worry buddy.. Tbats what I do… We will see a cure soon… We are hearing about hair loss research studies every month… Its generated more genuine interest since 2015 maybe earlier
Also William, I believe this has been tested by others in a private forum before and they didn’t get results, so its unlikely that the correct dosage or formulation is known by anyone yet. I doubt DMSO alone is going to be the ultimate carrier that is needed.
You may be wasting your money until you have all the specifics.
And how do they now know of the coming hair revolution? Just because of the news this past week?
Not saying they are bad guys, but they could be looking to make a fast buck by throwing the name tofacitinib out there, just as other products have done by saying they use STEM CELLS or WNT activators. Hopping on the fad maybe.
Christopher1 has use Tofa 5mg in distiller water. Just DMSO can dissolve Tofa, not?
William, If you do try, good luck man, but be careful and monitor things really closely
30s = Quand tu as entre 30 et 39 ans.
Hello ! I took part in a groupbuy a few years ago when tofacitnib first gained interest. I bought 2.5 grams. @willam you need to dissolve it in dmi or dmso , dmi preferred. Does it work ? IMO it does at least stop loss and kill itch/pain inflammation, that’s what we were seeing low dosed <1% daily application. Tofac has a short half-life and it would be better trailed at a higher dose twice daily. I stopped using it because I freaked out a little at possible systemic absorbtion. Still have over 2 grams that I am selling to a guy who has terrible inflammation & loss that both ru and dut don't stop. Huge potential here guys take it from somebody with first hand experience
Very interesting Cal86.
Cal86, so it totally dissolves in dmi or dmso? So tofac and either on of those liquids were all you were using?
Did you personally see the hair loss stop or is that what others reported?
Do you try during 3 month or more?
Very interesting cal. This definitely holds great hope.
I was also thinking about how important not only high concentration is on this (as in multiple percentage points), but also delivery. While it is true that DMSO will certainly take this below your skin, it will also take a lot of it rapidly into your blood stream. So it will be going systemic. They are trying to compound this so that it penetrates the skin, but then stays in the scalp because of the short half life (3-4 hours). This also explains why it needs to be taken twice a day.
Also, the fact that they are trying to develop a covalent selective JAK inhibitor is very promising. Covalent inhibitors are much more powerful (i.e. they form a bond that shares an electron with another atom versus just using intermolecular forces like hydrogen bonds, ion-ion interactions, or van der waal forces all of which don’t share an electron). So it would make sense that the next gen JAK inhibitors would bind much more tightly to JAK resulting in a way more effective inhibitor so perhaps a lower concentration would be needed.
Also another very recent article on stat5 and hair induction….
Below is how Dr Christiano describes making the cream in her study.
“Ruxolitinib was purchased from ChemieTek (catalog no. CT-INCB). Tofacitinib was purchased from AbMole BioScience (catalog no. 477600-75-2). Hedgehog agonist (SAG) was purchased from EMD Millipore (catalog no. 566660). JAK-STAT inhibitors were dissolved in DMSO and used at 2 to 3% for in vivo experiments, as indicated, and 400 nM for in vitro experiments. SAG was used at 120 μM, as described by Paladini et al. (2).”
Can we obtain these products from these sites? And, would anyone know how to mix them in such a way?
Your post is misleading, it refers to 3 different creams being compared to each other. 1. SHH 2. Rux 3. Tof
RiverTown Therapeutics is a clinical stage startup with a novel, topically applied prescription product that promotes the recruitment of new hair follicles, and/or rejuvenates existing follicles that have become dormant in humans with androgenic alopecia. The lead compound, RT1640 has been tested in scores of animals and on seven humans with androgenic alopecia, all of whom have responded with hair growth. There are several follow-on indications beyond androgenic alopecia, including wound healing and idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis. All of the technologies rely on the company’s proprietary technology of recruitment and differentiation of stem cells in situ.
When applied to areas of hair loss (scalp, eyebrows, beard) RT1640 promotes the reanimation of hair follicles through the recruitment and differentiation of follicular stem cells, including melanocyte stem cells. As a result of these events, new hair grows over the bald areas. In addition, if the subject had achromotrichia (gray or white hair from color-loss) before hair loss, it grows back as pigmented hair.
Great update admin, i wish dr walker could clarify what “pretty interesting” means exactly ! So it’s gonna take 5 to 7 years? and some of his colleguaes started using them now
Guys I think our only hope to move this along is if someone from the forum (or a friend) who has AA and mpb gets involved with clinical trials for AA. While doing so they put a dab of the medication on their mpb area as well. Hopefully it will be the topical version that they have access to. I think this is our best bet. Otherwise we wont see any mpb results for a long time!
The sad thing is that it works and we have to wait 7 years… 7 years of hair loss….
Guys, what is this?
What has Gail Naughton to do with Cytori / Kerastem Technologies?
@Netshed. The answer. Very good news.
“This system will dramatically improve the speed in which personalized cell-based therapies can be delivered to patients.”
Tofacitinib+DSMO+Hedgehog agonist is all used in combination.
List of existing Hedgehog agonists
Christiano used Hedgehog agonist (SAG) was purchased from EMD Millipore (catalog no. 566660).
Let’s make some!!
Pretty interesting. Some knowledgeable person can let us know how much tofacitinib will work for AGA after getting this info. Hopefully we will get the good news very soon.
Do NOT buy a topical SHH upregulator. Can cause cancer if too high. Blocking JAK/stat signaling bumped SHH levels to good levels anyways per the Christiano study.
No You are misreading. The study refers to 3 different creams being compared to each other. 1. SHH 2. Rux 3. Tof
Admin any update on that replicel article?
See nosyu’s reply in the comments.
Isn’t kerastem available in Europe with limited results? Don’t see what the excitement is with this. Gail probably bought stocks to make money off it. Doesn’t mean this treatment will be effective more than Rogaine
Self-assembling peptide hydrogel scaffolds support stem cell-based hair follicle regeneration.
Inhibition of β-catenin signalling in dermal fibroblasts enhances hair follicle regeneration during wound healing.
Guys, remember when your hair was so awesome that you didn’t dare put on a hat? Nostalgia runs deep.
Haha yup! I used to get my hair up spiked jersey shore blow out. Miss those days. I had thick ass hair.
What in the world has happened to Samumed!!? Can anyone answer? Any updates?
Probably got shelved since it works. I hate this industry
Hey Paul nice post. Is that technique the same as follica technique?
Admin, what’s your opinion on Rivertown’s RT1640 ?
Serious, reputable player ?
He will discuss about it in his next post
Question: If theChristiano has already produced a topical version of the JAK inhibitor and has tested it on people, why are they still in the “development” phase? They have developed a product and have begun testing.
Also, the ingredients and solution she used is out there for the public to see. Is anyone going to try to make it themselves and begin testing? I am seriously considering , but don’t know the first thing about mixing solutions and what not
** Dr. Christiano, not the Christiano
Could it be that Cytori is providing the tools / equipment that is needed to inject / apply HSC of Histogen in Japan for instance ? For that reason Gail Naughton might have increased her Cytori ownership … to prepare for ending 2017 / beginning 2018.
I don’t know
Dude she bought like 2000 dollars worth of shares…thats nothing
Histogen is all about BS…. If you go to clinicaltrials.gov they dont have anything for this year. The only trial they have in 2012 was incomplete or nothing was comunicated. Go and look for yourself.
The trial Still not finish. Maybe collecting data or analysis
Thank you (:
I emailed aclaris asking about a possible date of launch for jak aga trials , they replied that they don’t have current ongoing aga trials lol
“We appreciate your interest in our drug development programs. At this time, we have no ongoing clinical trials for androgenic alopecia.
For current information and the status of our clinical trial programs, information may be found on the Aclaris website at http://www.aclaristx.com. “
Well said mjones. There’s a lot of forces at play other than straight forward product to market. It’s very frustrating.
I had strip survey 6 or 7 years ago with Rahal. Great result and the scar is very fine. Hairline has maintained superbly but I have a lot of top thinning I was hoping would be addressed by a treatment other than transplant. Now thinking to fill in density with FUE.
And I would pay through the roof for a real fix.
Del is fue for hairline noticeable to others ?
You would assume that researchers that have made pretty strong statements in the (recent) past implicating they have an effective treatment or cure, would love to contact Admin to give some insights, like photos, so we can see them on this great blog updated regularly.
They don’t have to reveal the details or components of their product, but show at least some wel taken pictures and try to give us some decent timeline.
So far we have only had a Histogen researcher who said we should not be to harsh on their progression. When will Samumed make contact, Replicel, Thorne or Follica. Most of them said 2017 or 2018 … Postponing again and again fellas? As soon as these kind of companies (Spin-offs) are formed, they become even more secretive than the original researchers from the universities.
Most Uni researchers seem to be interested in doing research and keeping their research lines at universities intact for decades to provide jobs. Reputation and citation levels being the main drivers behind their dedication. They discover but don’t solve. And those working for companies especially serve their shareholders not the population.
There might be some excemptions to this, but the majority of universities are not providing what they are hired for by the community. Finding and explaining stuff is their first obligation, solving stuff is their second. As far as I know, tax payers pay for academic research in most European countries. So the entire population forms the main stakeholder asking for (hair loss) solutions. Researchers mainly like finding stuff, then they stop.
(mistake in last paragraph) …be some Exceptions to this …
Keeping their research lines alive, I see this year after year:
Research lines extremely competing with each other to attract funding from the EU, while these lines are at the same university (instead of working together)
Destroying the computer or server of a colleague while the research database was on that particular server, so destroying 8 years of research.
Not sharing their technicians or PhD while there is a clear overlap in activities.
Not wanting to share lab facilities. Taking stuff from labs during holidays.
Not hiring technicians that have had great experience at another facility within the same university, but hiring new ones without any experience.
It’s just daily business.
It’s only business.
And we have to check these folks everyday.
Serving the community, yup, just a handful of them.
So the entire population forms the main stakeholder asking for (hair loss) solutions…I don’t have anything else to say….Exist a HUGE DEMAND FOR NEW TREATMENT TO TREAT MPB CORRECTLY.
I did some research and found that il 6 is involved with the STAT 3 pathway. Even more interesting, il10 blocks il 6. If Il 6 is too high in individuals they have 2x more likely chance of being depressed. Funny since inflammation is thought to be heavily involved in depression. But the most interesting part of all of it is that when the skin experiences experiences trauma, burning, poking, etc. the body reacts by releasing a bunch of il 10. This gives credit to follicas therapy in my mind. Many ways to up -regulate il 10. Fish oil, curcumin, resveratrol, serotonin… All of which help somewhat with hair loss
For you science geeks. Very interesting. Ties all the theories together.
Just read that and i’m absolutely fascinated by it – as someone who was randomly diagnosed as hypothyroid and whoa hair loss started during a period of high stress and poor health, elevated IL6 really could be the issue I’ve been trying to pinpoint. Some Google research told me that carnitine seems to be one of the most effective inhibitors of it….
Yes, it seems that psoriasis, hair loss, hypothyroid, rheumatoid arthritis and many more auto immune diseases all have common linkages. It would make sense evolutionarily that baldness would happen since il 6 used to be very helpful keeping virus’s and pathogens at bay. But since we have modern medicine/hygiene we don’t need it and it actually messes us up. Thanks for reading man, seems like no one cares about science in these comments. Very frustrating for the admin I’m sure.
Done a bit more reading into it and have come up with a verrry far fetched theory about MPB which would get laughed out of any Hair Loss forum so won’t go into it here.
All I’ll say is that tomorrow, I am buying L-Carnitine and some Vit B3, refraining from a behaviour which I think causes an inflammatory response in the body for a while, and going for a full niacin flush. As they say in that article, it has particularly bad effects on Th2 dominant people, and I reckon that if Th2 dominant people place their bodies under physical/psychological stress over a long period of time without attempting to bring IL6 down otherwise, that is when the negatives start to appear.
I thin contingents to IL6 sensitivity can involve sedentary lifestyles (and the behaviours this entails), stress and, though it sounds weird, poor posture (this bringing body out of alignment, causing an inflammatory response)
All theories, but I like experimenting on myself
Is anyone aware of any possible way to get a topical JAK creme/lotion?
I am not going to wait the 10 years before they test, develop and then possibly release this, for AGA.
Look for herbal psoriasis creams that contain berberine, palmatine, oregon grape, barberry…
guys there is one thing i cant take it anymore on this forum is that you think big pharma shelf potential cures!!!!
are you seriously f-ing with me? Do you know how they struggle with price margins? do you how much their market share lost due to local brands? in some countries specialist can not even prescribe big brands if you have a local substitute.
Say everything you can… but never ever say they implicitly keep cures going out to public… from 90s till now, you have no idea how much Merck, GSK , Pfizer….etc has lost market share and their profitability decreased.
do you know how desperate they are to find a cure and make money? you have no f-ing idea…
still not convinced? let me tell you this, if they dont come up with anything in next decade they all will be gone….
Thanks donitello. The post of the day! You are right.
i am serious guys. no joke.. I know it because i work for one… each day local brands and local regulations are killing our margins and profitability. we can not survive without developing a cure.. once you patented it, u r sorted for the next two decades… and if u talking about hairloss? image a simple pill or topical will make u NW0.. i am seriously asking why the hell on earth they want to keep it to themselves?
do you know how desperate we are to find the cure for cancer treatments?
last week in our monthly sales meeting, sales was blaming me because products didnt come on time. And you know what they told me? we lost 10 people because u didnt do your job well…
just think about it before you make any false acquisitions…
The problem is that there is no real Open Access when it comes to hair loss research. Yes we can see the articles at Pubmed and other sites, but not everything will be published which means that progress is being made but not as fast as it could go when everything would be openly accessible.
This counts for other health issues as well btw.
Yes pharmacy is working hard, yes they are eager to find the solution first, because they have to satisfy the shareholders, otherwise the shareholders force the management to fire employees.
Desperate for money not desperate to stop the hair loss suffering my friend
@donitello. I’m not being sarcastic! It’s a great post and you are absolutely right. People are working very very hard.
Assuming that jak works is there no way they can release it without waiting for 5-7 years, like non? How about they just find the correct way of preparing a topical and then start mass production of the stuff so it is cheaper and we suddenly start getting sick and physicians start prescribing this stuff? Is there NO WAY we can bypass the system?
Thanks man… guys, please understand there is alot of frustration in big pharma… u think grass is greener on the other side.. but i assure you it is not…
we are not in 80s 90s anymore. when you put a price tag whatever you want and sell millions…
You can find our products in local brands as well. say about propecia right? there are many generic versions and I am pretty sure you all dont use Merck right? do you think Merck is happy with it? they are losing their shares…
Merck sell drog that was from other pharmas
@hlscc my HT is invisible. No one suspects.
Wow ! A fue also for hairline is not detectable ?
Donitello, can you tell us in your opinion why we havent heard from samumed and Allergan in a while? Also why hasn’t setipiprant trials begun yet when its been made several years ago and they already did a trial for asthma? Why arent they hurrying up? Im not expressing sarcasm don, I want to be educated.
i dont know man… i am in logistics and mainly responsible for transportation of goods..
however my opinion about samumed and such, these companies now are worth billions in stock market. that i agree. however what is the product? it is all just concept.. and even concept was enough to pimp up the stock value… however situation can change in one night…
it was how stem cell research market was crashed in 2000s..
probably they are busy with creating product and value proposition
Guys anybody know about this https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/threads/17412-A-traditional-hair-loss-lotion-from-SouthEast-Asia-contains-natural-JAK-inhibitor
Looking at the research papers it doesn’t seem the same as Aclaris approach, because brevillin a isn’t a “selective jak3 inhibitor” even though it’s similar. I bet it’s good for hair but It’s not going to trigger miraculous regrowth.
I’m just going to get an fue for my hairline temples and call it a day. I just need an fue where they don’t shave my head. I work in sales and I can’t be out looking like my head was cut up.
I think we over analyze and read into things too much. The reason there are delays and treatments like jak being 2nd place to AA for trials and hsc taking forget is because the stuff doesn’t work well. Plain and simple. Propecia and crap Rogaine is all we have for the time being. Bronzu probably doesn’t work either since he is taking his sweet ass time posting results. Why all the secrecy for mpb treatments but none for AA. It’s weird
One thing you’ll have to consider with transplants is scar tissue. When a treatment does come out, you’ll be at a disadvantage.
You seem to be in a bad mood today, Mjones. Remember, not everyone who does FUE is happy with it. It is not a panacea. There was just a guy on here the other day who said he had one and it ruined his hair line forever. Even if he shaves it now… his scalp will show the remnants of the procedure. Good luck…
That’s what I am afraid of ddog. Scar tissue and a botch job. I know I will probably never go through with it because honestly I’m terrified of doing it after seeing YouTube videos of fue procedure. I am having a bad day too, sorry for bringing my bad mood on this forum. It’s just my hair is thinning out to fast even on Propecia Rogaine Latisse and niz. It’s like wtf type of super mpb genes do I have. Just frustrated because I’m doing everything possible that is safe and approved. Won’t touch dut or ru. Last thing I need is erectile dysfunction. I’m at the point where if something like histogen or sm would come out right now it would save me. If nothing comes out for 3 to 5 years it will be too late. Doubt this new stuff is as good as we think it will be. Maybe follica if their 100cm2 coverage is legit
Paul Phoenix I think you need to start tweeting or sending 100 emails a day stating your catch phrase “we need new treatments, it’s 2016, Propecia Rogaine are stone age, we need better treatments asap”. They might actually hear you and realize we are frustrated:) send it to histogen, sm, aclaris, follica, etc 20 years is a long ass time with no new treatments
Like I have said before. Mentally prepare yourself to be bald. That is the card we have been dealt. If a miracle comes out, and saves us, awesome, but prepare yourself. Do all the things you need to do without hair to appeal to women.. I see a lot of dudes now who are bald with gorgeous women. Women get heavier as they age, and the majority of the men get balder. Keep fit, brother. If no one wants to be with you because you don’t have hair, you probably sucked to begin with.
Totally agree ddog. It’s not the women that is my problem. I work out, make good money, cool dude and meet women all the time. It’s just I’m very sensitive about my appearance. I was always the stylish, modern dude amongst my friends who always styled his hair, worse designer clothes etc. Don’t want to lose that lifestyle by losing my hair. I work hard for everything and always succeed. This is the first thing, mpb that is kicking my ass no matter how hard I fight it
I think maybe you were meant to transition away from that. Seems like kind of a shallow existence. It is one that 20 year old men live. Not to insult you.. but I think if you conquer your vanity, you may be happier. Find a girl, get married, and focus on kids.. I am sure you will fine your worry about your hair will melt away.
You are probably right ddog lol
Speaking of work..i work with this guy that is always trying to put me down. I mind my own business and he always trying to make me look bad to others. He constantly brags how great he is at everything and how his worse fear is going bald (he has great hair). He makes fun of what hair I have left and is constantly on me. Sometimes I ignore him, other times I get few up and go back at him. He is really tight with the supervisors so i cant go to them. I can see it really bothers him when I try and make things better for myself like dress nice or if aomeone says something nice to me. Im tired of the anxiety of going into work everyday to be put down.
People like your coworker need to get their ass kicked. Anyone who pokes fun of balding people are just scum. I know a guy that makes fun of everyone when it comes to looks. Always making fun of bald people like it’s their fault they lose their hair. It disgusts me. However this guy is the most insecure dude that I know and he is miserable deep inside. Very jealous kid. I’m sure you coworker is too. I have never made fun of anyone on how they look. Even before my hair loss. I was raised with respect. People like him deserve to go bald
Just ignore that idiota. Dont hide your self. I Know is not easy. Just call him to talk in privet and say to him that you are not bald for option. Says to him you dont feel comfortable with a person who spends time playing with the diseases of others. Certainly will understand. If not day it again but give him the feeling you will stop that next time but will be wors to him.
If I learnt one thing in life is that nothing is what it seems. And when people highlight certain things it’s because they lack it. The likely truth is this coworker of yours is insecure and unhappy about many things. He picks on you to make himself feel better. Once i realised that, when my verbal bully used to take me I would just smile and give him a pitiful look, don’t react, he’ll soon get bored.
No, I’ve seen a lot of married men with kids and still upset about it. I think it depends of a person personality
First. Dont do HT. You will up you head when any better traetment go to the market. Maybe you will fine 2 3 or 5 years but in the end you genes will kill the rest of you hair. You will end in a terriblr situation in the futuro.
Second. Then you enter in a clínical trial you can tell thats is happend. But way you say that we have info about AA clínical trial? Because FDA was aproved something like a law to AA ppl can talk to the comunity about this study. I post a link the other day about that.
One Last thing.
This clínical trial i didnt Know until today is the drog a jak thing or is another thing? Sorry if this was talk in the past.
Ends next year.
This bim trial ends next April. Why are they starting at phase 1 again? They did phase 2 last year. Strange
I had heard that there last trial(s) only demonstrated 1% absorption of Bim from their formulation so they were going back to work on vehicle/delivery. This may be the reason for the phase 1 restart. Although disappointing, it would seem to indicate they believe they have something worth pursuing.
I kind of like the idea that jak inhibitors only work topically for AGA. That answers my big question of why nobody taking systematic jak inhibitors for other prescribed uses didn’t stumble upon the cure for mpb. That was something that had bothered me, but now I know why!
I really feel big Parma buy out promising treatments just to shelf those treatment to protect their own profit margins. It happens in all types of business industries. No conspiracy theory here just business 101.
@ Tom I have a worker at my work exaclly like that too! He has recently got a new job description which is much more stressful. He has now started itching the back of his scalp constantly where a bold area has appeared. It called Karma.
And I’m 38 with 2 kids and I still care about my hair.
My final worry is whether or not my four HT surgeries on top of my head have killed all of my dormant hair cells.
I’m trying to imagine what would happen if someone with a full head of hair had thousands of needle punches to the scalp. I wonder how much hair would be left? I hope it’s at least 50%. The good news is I already have about 25% of a thick head of hair just from the surgery results, so at least I have that to start with.
Has anyone tried out Brevilin A or know of people/a study where it was tested on AGA?
Guys dr king is already treating patients for AA and it didnt pass the clinical trials and isnt approved yet … Could this be happening for topical jak for aga next year what do u think?
“My final worry is whether or not my four HT surgeries on top of my head have killed all of my dormant hair cells.”
Can’t you just regrow new follicles through wounding? Correct me if I’m wrong, but jaks are supposed to go hand-in-hand with wounding to attain results anyway. So I don’t understand why this continues to be a concern to some.
Can someone here explain me how JAK will work? i meant;
1. Do they know how to make a compound (what to mix and with what)?
2. if JAK are already FDA aproved, how long is gonna take to hit the market?
3. How they know that topically it works on AGA?
4. When they are gonna start the trials?
Thanks in advance guys!
for aga it’s gonna take several years, probably 5 to 7, they know it works for aga and dr walker said that his colleagues are trying it and the results are interesting, the trials for aga maybe will start and the end of 2017 …..
but if dr Walker’s colleagues are trying now and they know it works, why we cant get the compound they have and try it ourself?
because of the side effects …
Also, Majones you overthink too much. Why can’t you be a bald/balding dude and still dress in your current style? I’ve known a few baldies that dress designer and “trendy” and it’s not a big deal. If anything it helps improve their appearance.
Obviously there are reasons that makes that we can’t stand with balding…
Hi Kain. I will keep dressing nicely and stuff but you and I both know hair makes the face and the clothes and style look better with a full head of hair. I just wish mpb was total loss of body hair instead of scalp hair. That horseshoe pattern loss looks so unattractive
Admin, have you written about estrogen in it’s role in hair loss? Estrogen causing an increase in DHT.
This looks interesting, if a tad amateur.
He is trying to sell an ebook about his treatment. It’s a scam
Admin Please update
It hasn’t even been a week, chill.
I wonder if the Follica treatment will produce compoundable results. So if you could get 25 new terminal hairs per cm2 fr your first procedure, then a year or two later go for a repeat procedure and get another 25. No one knows for sure what the 75 ‘neogenic hairs’ will look like or they will turn into terminal hairs, so for that reason I rather consider Follica capable of yielding 25 (or even 15-20) new thick hairs per cm2. I just hope this hair count info from Puretech is a proven certainty and not guessing made up bs.
Also, I hope the follica procedure will cover the entire scalp as a standard practise. I would want to get it on the sides, sideburns and nape area as well as the top and crown.
I would want it for the top of my head and beard. My facial hair is weak. 15 to 25cm2 comes out how many hairs all over the scalp? Would this be better than ht coverage?
The total surface area of the scalp is approximately 600 cm².
Neogenic means newly formed. I think what the presentation attempts to say is that for every one existing terminal hair the procedure produces three new hairs. Presumably these would be made terminal by a compound like fgf9. The real question though is, like you say, if the results can be repeated with repeat procedures. If so, it’s a functional cure.
It sure would be great if it meant 3 new hairs for every pre-existing hair!
However their presentation says “TCP creates 100 new hairs/ cm2 (1/4 terminal, 3/4 neogenic)”. This clearly signifies that the 1/4 terminal hairs are newly created through TCP. A bit confusing since that would also make the terminal hairs ‘neogenic’. Maybe only the ones described as ‘terminal’ would be cosmetically relevant.
I would take 20 new terminal hairs per cm2. I still hope that ghe smaller neogenic hairs could be made terminal. Thousands of tiny new vellus hairs incapable of becoming terminal might give a strange texture and appearance.
But is it the right compound and did they try it to see if works ?
That look Good. Lets hack in xD
Quite “Dr. Sidbury has a compounding pharmacy make topical tofacitinib 2% in a liposomal base, which achieves better penetration than Versabase. He recommends Chemistry Rx in Philadelphia for compounding.
“I have no financial interest, I’ve just found them incredibly helpful. The cost is $330 for 30 g. That’s not dirt cheap by a long shot, but I’ve looked into this for parents before I was aware of the Chemistry Rx option, and the cost was thousands and thousands of dollars when I tried to get it compounded in a local pharmacy that didn’t have the economy of scale,” he said.
Patients apply the topical JAK inhibitor twice daily. “I’ve probably got six or seven kids on topical JAK inhibitor therapy for alopecia areata, and I’ve seen responses in all of them”” copy paste into google for source. They do regular tests on patients to monitor for side effects which can be serious.
Great stuff BarberryShill!
Khourii its a pharmacy that maybe work for pharma corporation. But feel wrong.
It’s been a year now since they made the cream ( August 2015). I mean we supposed to hear about it last year ?!?
For sure pharmacists will make the topical jak and we don’t really need to wait 7 years. The same thing happened with minox, people were crushing the pill and applying on the scalp before FDA approves it
And is legal? There are patents…… And the data of the foto is July 2015. Where you find that? Somy user can send a msg about what is that photo. My vocabilary is a lot bad lol
I hope so. But the major problem I see with that is the cost. Right now some of the treatments that I see being used by AA patients/ people on the web are SUPER expensive. I couldn’t imagine paying $3000+ every month for that cream but who knows.
Obviously if they were mass producing it for a specific product (cream), the price would come way down (using simple logic) but that won’t happen until it is FDA approved, I assume.
It will not be $3000 a month unless it insurers WIDELY agree to cover it. Then yeah they may price it really high as nobody using it will end up footing the bill.
Otherwise, they know $3000/month would drop their potential target market from 3B people to 1,000 people.
Yes, I saw that. But, how do we get a prescription for it?
I think any doctor that is convinced that it would help with the problem would would prescribe it off label. But no tests = no prescription.
It’s retarded exensive. Need to participate in group buys
Really ? How much is it and how did you know ?
I looked into tofa a while back. It’s just a lot of money. Group buys are the best bet for this one
Wow… That’s f crazy expensive. $61/pill is outrageous – honestly how can a company really find it ethical to charge so much for a medication?
Xeljanz’s patent ends Dec. 31 2018… so 2.5 years before this stuff becomes cheaper/ generic version is possible? And my guess is that it would be MUCH cheaper.
Yea, so it’s going to be a while before most doctors would prescribe it
Honestly, I doubt doctors would prescribe it. The side effect profile orally is awful. Unless you and your doc are tight friends, it’s unlikely.
Oral side effects are going to be different than topical side effects. There are plenty of people online that already get it prescribed orally off label (do a search there are a ton of references).
@khourii – I highly doubt a mass produced cream (for AGA) would be so high. Like anything manufactured – the more they make, the lower the cost. I personally could see it being $1000 over 6 months starting out but will undoubtedly get cheaper overtime + generics coming out.
Almost all medications have bad side effect profiles… they are more a product of the legal department covering the Ps and Qs than any real scientific merit.
Look at accutane, which has just as bad a list of “potential” side effects but is prescribed WIDELY
The pill form is $3000 but what about the cream form? Even if $3000 I can afford it I just want to know the way to get it
You can afford $3000 a month?
Anyone who can, tell us your profession and company, we want that kind of job too :)
just because Netherlands is shite at paying and pay almost 50% tax doesnt mean expats in Dubai can not afford right? schöne jonge… snap je wat ik zeg?
What does that last sentence mean?
‘Do you get what i say’ he says. Dutch sentence ;-)
Drug pricing doesn’t always have to do with the cost of making it. Sometimes it is high because insurance companies will foot the bill anyway. Sometimes they are trying to recuperate their past investment (sometimes 10+ years of investing in trials). Sometimes it is high because they have a patent and nobody else has it. Sometimes it is high because, while it does solve a problem and solves it well, there aren’t THAT many people with the problem…thus, they get almost 100% of their market buying it, but the market is small… thus they charge a lot to get back their investment….
The point is, many factors go into the cost of it, beyond manufacturing costs (which often times are not much). This treatment will most likely not be $3,000 a month… it is also possible that once it is available for psoriasis in topical form, you can get that form prescribed “off-label” by the doctor.. thus covered by insurance.
They know the market is huge… and that charging $50k a year for the topical creme is going to cut that huge market WAY WAY down. They want to find a balance between a high price and massive adoption of people using it. They don’t wan’t to charge $50k/yr and only sell it to 1,000 people worldwide. They want to charge $1k/yr and sell it to 2B people a year….
These folks are not stupid.
B&T Psoriaflora Cream, active ingredient is a JAK3 inhibitor, sold OTC as a topical treatment…
It works for aga?
would we be here if it did?
Who knows? Only way to find out is to try it.
what is the active ingredient and how do you know this?
Active ingredient, Berberis aquifolium (“Oregon Grape”) extract. This extract is primarily the compound Berberine. Berberine is a selective JAK3 inhibitor. If you search my posts in this thread, I linked a scientific study that makes this statement. I know all this by use of google.
Just saw this tip on youtube and thought I’d share it. He uses two products: one is called disguise spray and one is hair fibers. I don’t have problems with thinning hair, but those of you who do, hopefully might find this video helpful.
This psoriasis stuff is making me very intreged because my father suffers from it. I don’t have signs of it but I wonder if there is a connection between it and the hair loss that we suffer. Inflammation again…
Weren’t you guys talking about getting the pills, crushing them, and making a cream until the actual stuff reaches market?
My hope is that PSI( osh101) would work. It would be great if Admin could contact with guys who used it in past. Or the company which conducted trials.
It doesn’t work. Somebody is using it in a private forum. He has been on it for 6+ months and grew maybe 15 new hairs.
He needs more cycles.
well he is going to need the results to increase 20x to get even remotely close to a cosmetic difference. I don’t see him going from growing 2 hairs in the middle of a sea of baldness to magically sprouting 50 hairs per cm just because he does 8 cycles instead of the 4 he did.
I am not hopeful that we’ll see such a drastic turn around…
I wonder when can we expect trials to start
Listening to Christiano again on the BTT interview @21:30 she stated that
“if someone started today with an approved… in 3 years there’s no reason they couldn’t have completed a phase 1, almost phase 2. There’s no reason an efficacy indicator couldn’t be had within the next 3 to 5 years.”
She also states it is a quick “go/ no go” and that it will be obvious if it works relatively fast.
I think it would be pretty obvious that if Aclaris goes to Phase 2 with JAK for AGA, it would mean that the efficacy is a strong positive.
I know that it doesn’t answer your question but really… I think we are going to have to wait 3 years for the phase 1 study to come out and we will know if this is fully legit… but I also think that the lab already knows that with their own trials… as she said… it is a pretty obvious go/no go… and if that is the case why even go into a phase 1 trial if it is so easy/ quick to find out if it works or not.
Link to the BTT show:
Happy Father’s day to all our bald dads who fought hair loss without any effective treatment to raise strong hard working guys like us who have better hope in a hair loss treatment:) They fought hair loss with no hope to get hair back but still managed succeed in life. True men right there!
This is a great (2 session) HT procedure guys. Unbelievable. I believe this guy is one of the best FUE HT surgeons in Europe. This clinic only does FUE.
Not bad but still has that pluggy look along the hair line. However the density is decent. This matched with follica plus histogen could yield very impressive results
Nice post @mjones. People with MPB need Histogen (HSC) and follica. IMO Perhaps hair transplant doctors in the very near future works with HSC for more density. FUE+HSC.
dude mjones you are talking like you know that follica and histogen will work…
Histogen does work Farhan we have seen pics. Yes there is some comb over stuff but the dude hair was thicker and more coverage. Definitely not a cure but an excellent addition to ht Propecia Rogaine and hopefully follica
If you are from Spain and you have very dense donor hair, just go to this surgeon and your problem is solved.
Here is another one from summer 2015:
Couple things happening here.
Both those guys have EXTREMELY thick hair. So that is what is giving them the coverage post op. And it looks amazing.
Down side as Mjones pointed out is that the hairline looks “pluggy” but really… if that is your only worry after this procedure I really think you’re golden.
I think in general with thinner hair your hairline will look more natural but in turn your coverage won’t be as great.
Something more like this guy (take note that he also got about half the grafts): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK_BOFLY2uk
What do you guys think? Would you do a procedure like one of these? I’m a NW 3, 30 years and feel like I should wait at least another 5 years for various reasons (future treatments, see where the hairline goes, advancement in HTs, price reduction in HTs etc) before considering an HT but when I see these videos… sometimes they get me interested. I’d love to hear your opinions (and not your yelling, screaming rage).
I am waiting for 2017 and 2018, for Thorne, Histogen, Follica, Shiseido/Replicel.
If those treatments work well enough, I skip the transplant.
They are probably much cheaper.
If those treatments don’t give enough coverage, I will go for treatment + a good HT like the one I’ve posted, travelling to Spain for instance is no issue.
If the treatments don’t come out, I won’t get a transplant because I keep losing ground, so I’ll wait forJAK in 2019/2020.
I hope HT prices will drop the upcoming 2 years.
Of course Curious. You are right in all of your explication. Hair transplant are very expensives. This situation is deplorable.
I don’t know Paul… If I could spend $15 – 20,000usd knowing that I would never have to worry about my hair again I would do it, maybe with some hesitation but in the end I know I would. It would be worth the comfort to me… but I’m not into daily medications that have potential sides and don’t have significant results after the HT.
But the thing with HTs is that it isn’t a sure thing that you know you won’t need anything else in the future… that’s the big draw back for me. It’s one of those things that I would consider doing but feel that NW3 at age 30 is too soon… I could potentially progress further even though it took me 7+ years to fully progress from NW2 to NW3… I wish I could just have a good calculation to know when/ where my hair will end up.
If I knew I would go to NW 5+ I would probably just throw in the towel at some point if there isn’t a treatment that could bring it back. But I have a friend that progressed from NW1or2 to NW 4 in 4 to 5 years and then it just stopped (hasn’t move at all in the past 5 years)… I actually have considered telling him that I personally think an HT would work for him… he has a ton of donor area if he doesn’t progress further.
We can buy this stuff real cheap from alibaba. We just need to be careful and find a trustworthy supplier. Maybe take a chance with a long time gold certified supplier? Does anyone know of one with a good rep? Or a good way to test the product if we buy a small sample?
Yea, or possible find a third party to verify the batch. That is what guys on that private forum do. I would be in for a group buy…
I want that cream from chemestry rx website :)) it says call for a refill
netshed… that’s why i would never get a ht.
for me, doesn’t look good at all and i’d never want to butcher my scalp and ruin any future chances.
i’m desperate but in my opinion, not impressed at all and i’d rather shave my head and wait for the cure.
Yes I am waiting for a treatment / cure as well.
If that does not work well enough, but at least stops the progression, I would fill in the rest with HT.
Why not both. A fue now and maybe in 5 years when there is something better you can take that treatment. Maybe together you get the result you want!
Most of us are afraid that a HT now might destroy a lot of our dormant follicles, which could mean that for instance HSC or JAK later won’t work as good as they should.
I just want to know what Follica’s method is really capable of. Will it really create full robust, thick de novo hairs or just de novo vellus hairs?
I havent been thru all the comments, and I don’t claim an absolute understanding of scientific studies/papers but it seems there are some otc substances that have an effect on the jak/stat pathway which i havent seen mentioned or pursued: luteolin, kaempferol, myrecetin, glucosamine. I’ve been using a self made topical glucosamine for about a year now, and my hair has slightly improved over that time span; no small feat for a balding individual.
The first 3 substances you mentioned are all flavonoids. I saw researchers can buy these at for instance Sigma-Aldrich. But there might be more mnufacturers of these components.
BTW, Merck recently has finished the acquisition of Sigma-Aldrich …
Luteolin and STAT3 and IL6:
Kaempferol and STAT6 and IL4 and JAK3
Quercetin and STAT3 and IL6
The only who might be able to tell us more about this is JAK Master Matt !
Glucosamine and STAT3
Again, anyone with more knowledge about these flavonoids + glucosamine?
That FUE video looks completely like a wig or at best a dead giveaway hair transplant. Dunno why someone would want to look like they wear a hat made of human hair. But… if the guy is happy who cares what we think.
@James, I really dont think we’ll ever see anything from Follica. Ppl seem to worship this Cots guy but has he ever produced a single piece of evidence?? I hope he’ll blast onto the stage within long with a solid new treatment but I highly doubt it.
Puretech have said that if Follica’s data read-out in 2017 is favourable then they will seek fda approval for release as soon as 2018. So by next year we should know if they will follow through on that. If we hear nothing or the data is unfavorable then it would be safe to assume they have nothing. Until then we should remain hopeful.
King of hair loss research bro ! BTW I think JAK cream for AA will work for AGA as well, what do you guys think ?
@Until now hes only been the King of talk, no evidence and lots of patents.
Good point bout the AA cream:-) Fingers crossed:-0
Glycosamine and chondroitin cream are often recommended to treat Reumatoid Artritis. They have a modest effect in terms of relieve.
Chondroitin being a natural glycosamineglycan inhibits STAT3 in human keratinocytes and has a potential antiPsoriatic effect.
Everytime the same diseases are ‘linked’ with each other, due to same medicines, the same inhibitors, the same pathways, the immune response, the inflammation.
Psoriasis, SEczema, Vitiligo, RArtritis, AAreata. Most of us now believe AAndrogenetica should be on that same list as being a (slow) auto immune disease as well.
Especially the knowledge of JAK Master Matt in relation to STAT3 and IL6 has at least convinced me, that the researchers are on the right track with JAK.
Cots is the man! Do not doubt his work. That’s how Greeks work. We work in silence and quietness due to fear that our work will be replicated. Then bam! Huge successful treatment. Just wait and see.
BTW cots is the director of the most advanced and funded hair loss group within the university of PA. Been hosted on numerous talk shows, news channels and good morning America, the Doctors, NBC news etc. If he doesn’t have a treatment then we can pretty much just shave our heads and move on. Nothing else has a better chance at the moment
I hope so mjones.
I quietly trust Cots. I hope he is now positioning Follica to deliver something groundbreaking in 2018.
I just wish that in the meantime he would give all us guys some hope… even if it was just by confirming what the puretech document said about 100 new hairs per cm2. Is it puretech people saying that or Cots himself stating it as fact? Unless I hear it from Cots himself I cannot truly believe it isn’t some hyperbole that hasn’t been proven by Cot’s technique.
If Cots could just confirm it as true and clarify their definition of terminal and neogenic hairs, we could then all relax a bit in the knowledge that follicular reinforcements are on their way.
Mjones Dr cots for you is the same that jak for nasa… And Histogen for me until i reserch more about them…. To be honest i feel nothing big will happen :( but in other way i trust more in reserch from a doctor or professor than pharma that are in the stock market. They are living since 2000’s from especulation. How many drogs histogen, follica, follicum, samumed got out to the market in the passar 10 years or less? Zero i think. You are so Lucky that you can shave your heads an move on. :, (
And you Know that then you are in a trial you cant now talk about it on the Internet. Not for AGA but for AA you can. In some forun is easy to read about people with AA but all is about jak. Nothing from histogen and other.
Hey Matt, what do you think of this?
“We detected the significant upregulation of miR-221, miR-125b, miR-106a and miR-410 in balding papilla cells.”
miR-221 downregulates STAT1 and STAT2:
“Unlike miR-145 which is commonly down-regulated in tumors, miR-221/222 are often up-regulated in cancers [23, 27, 28]. Among the genes whose expression levels are altered by antisense-mediated knockdown of miRs-221/222 in U251 glioma cells, ones in the IFN-α signaling pathway are the most significantly modulated, and this observation is dependent on increased expression of STAT1 and STAT2 . Consistently, overexpression of miR-221/222 in U251 glioma cells interferes with IFN signaling by down-regulating STAT1 and STAT2 .”
Consistent with this, according to recent microarray data from Chew et. al, STAT1 and STAT2 are downregulated at the mRNA level in balding dermal papilla cells. In fact, all STATs are downregulated. Also, gene ontology analysis in PANTHER returns interferon pathways as the most enriched pathways among downregulated genes in balding DPCs.
miR-125b and miR-106a both downregulate STAT3:
“In addition, we identified 2 potential miR-125b-binding sites within the 3′UTR of Stat3 (Figure 4B), a transcription factor strongly involved in granulocytic differentiation.35,36 To demonstrate direct regulation by miR-125b, luciferase reporter containing wild-type Stat3 3′UTR sequences or their mutant-derivates with deletion of the putative miR-125b-binding sites were transfected into NIH3T3 cells stably over-expressing miR-125b (NIH3T3/miR-125b; Figure 4B and supplemental Figure 3A). As shown in Figure 4C, miR-125b represses luciferase activity by approximately 40% depending on the presence of miR-125b binding in the Stat3 3′UTR. Finally, Western blotting revealed an approximately 30%-40% reduction of STAT3 protein expression in 32D/miR-125b compared with 32D/miR-ctrl cells (Figure 4D).”
“Quantitative real-time PCR and Western blotting demonstrated that miR-106a was upregulated, and STAT3 and phospho-STAT3 were downregulated in the hippocampus at 12 weeks post-OVX, compared with age matched controls and the 6 and 8 weeks post-OVX groups. Transfection of human neuroblastoma SH-SY5Y cells with a miR-106a mimic reduced the expression of STAT3 mRNA, compared to control cells transfected with a scrambled mimic. STAT3 and phospho-STAT3 protein expression was upregulated or downregulated by a miR-106a inhibitor or miR-106a mimic, respectively, indicating that miR-106a negatively regulates STAT3. Luciferase reporter gene assays confirmed that miR-106a directly targets the 3′ untranslated region (UTR) of STAT3.”
Is this the result of negative feedback from higher JAK-STAT activity or something else?
Guys I know this is a shot in the dark and im off topic but im hoping “JulioGP” from tbt visits this forum. I need some help with instructions for doing prp at home. Im not going to ask on that site because I closed all other accounts after some people found out I was looking and contributing to the hair forums. Very embarrassing. So im hoping I can connect with JulioGP somehow on here. If anyone can nessa for me I would be very grateful. Thanks guys!
Which clinic/doctor did you see in Turkey for your HT?
Seriously considering the HT route and value your experience and opinion.
Dr King is starting trials of Tofacitinib for AA