JAK Inhibitor Updates and Miscellaneous Notes

Update: Dr. Neal Walker just presented yet again on June 15, 2016, this time at the William Blair Conference in Chicago.  Several new updates after 19:20 mins into the presentation):

  1. A more technical description of why topical JAK inhibitors work for AGA, but systemic ones do not work.
  2. He claims that some of his colleagues are using the compounded formulations of the AGA product in the initial development phase of their work and he found this to be pretty exciting.
  3. The AGA topical product will be slightly behind the vitiligo product when it comes to trials/development since the topical formulation for AGA is still being developed.

I was debating on writing this blog post, but the number of comments to the last post has become a bit insane and it is better to have some of the more intelligent discussions taking place here rather than continuing over there where it is now hard to find things.  For this post, I will delete many of the one-line comments that entail repetitive whining, insults, sarcasm or totally unrelated material.  In the next post more of the junk will be tolerated again.

My notes to the developments in the last post:

  • I am now raising my estimate of Janus kinase inhibitors (JAK inhibitors) being at least a partial cure for androgenic alopecia (aka androgenetic alopecia aka AGA aka male pattern baldness aka MPB) versus not being a cure from 50/50 to 60/40.  I say “partial” cure because even for alopecia areata (AA) sufferers, JAK inhibitors do not seem to work for everyone per the testimonials on alopeciaworld.com (Note: they are all taking oral JAK inhibitors over there and not topical ones as will be the case for AGA).  So there is a chance that we will see the same for AGA patients in the event that JAKs do work for AGA.  My gut instinct is still telling me that for those who have a lot of itching and dandruff associated with their balding, JAK inhibitors are more likely to work than for those who have hair loss without any of those symptoms.  However, you should not read too much into my own amateur estimates or untested theories, but I mention them here because so many commentators have asked me about my opinion, especially regarding the 50/50 estimate.
  • In the comments to the last post as well as in the various hair loss forums, a small minority of people have been very pessimistic about this news.  Some have raised valid points of concern. However, some do not even seem to think that Aclaris will test JAK inhibitors on humans, even though the company clearly had two slides in their presentation saying that they will do so. Therefore, even in the most pessimistic scenario, the company will be testing these drugs on humans with AGA.  In my opinion, there is a very high chance that Dr Angela Christiano (and Dr. Brett King) have already tested them on patients with AGA. After all, both doctors tested these drugs on AA patients (and vitiligo patients in the case of Dr. King) in the past without letting us know in advance.  Heck Dr. King could even have tried it on himself for his own AGA.  As an aside, it bears repeating Dr. King’s comment in his interview: “It’s hopeful…it’s beyond hopeful.
  • Dr. Neal Walker talked about the two new areas in which they will be testing JAK inhibitors in humans: AGA and vitiligo.   To me, that almost sounds like he is implying that he is equally hopeful about the chances for each of those conditions in humans being successfully treated with JAK inhibitors. Perhaps I am reading too much there, but in any case, we already know that JAK inhibitors work for treating vitilgo in humans, courtesy of Dr. Brett King.
  • Do not listen to Dr. George Cotsarelis when it comes to his skepticism about JAK inhibitors (see his comments in the CNN article linked in my post from 2014).  For one, he has been involved with numerous competing technologies, companies and patents over the past two decades.  Perhaps he has good scientific reason for his skepticism, but it is also human nature to favor your own work, especially when your work has entailed your whole career. If today someone suggested that a new car powering technology is far superior to electric, I would expect immediate skepticism from Elon Musk.
  • One funny thing that I recently noticed is that even though Dr. Cotsarelis claimed that the immune system is not involved in MPB per his 2014 CNN article quotes, in Follica’s latest presentation (courtesy of the same Jefferies Conference via PureTech’s Daphne Zohar), they clearly classify androgenic alopecia as part of an “immune system” related problem (the immune system label is on the left side written vertically).  This is strange, since Dr. Cotsarelis has been involved with Follica for many years and was in fact a co-founder!
  • For that matter, do not base your decisions and optimism or pessimism on what people such as myself, commentator Matt, nasa_rs, and the many intelligent hair loss members out there state.  Most people have some bias, and every single person that you listen to on the internet has no idea what Dr. Christiano, Dr. King, and now Alcaris Therapeutics’ scientists are up to in their labs.  It is amazing how many times I keep getting asked whether I still think a cure will be here by 2020, whether I think JAKs will work, whether I think their are conspiracies in the hair loss world etc…I will only know for sure once I have access to insect-sized and insect-lookalike drones that I can use to spy on the various labs that are working on a cure for hair loss!  Till then, my posts and comments will only give you my guesstimates and nothing more.
  • Despite my great optimism, I still see some negatives, including: JAK inhibitor treatment will remain expensive (even if prices go down significantly as I expect); clinical trials will take a few years; and once you start taking JAKs, it will be a lifelong commitment. Note that regarding clinical trials, there is a remote possibility that the companies can find ways to speed up the trial process due to the fact that JAK inhibitors already treat so many medical conditions as well as alopecia areata.  At the moment, it does not seem like JAK inhibitors are causing cancer in anyone, and they have probably been used in many people for at least 10 years. Ruxolitinib was first approved for human use in 2011, and Tofacitinib was approved in 2012.  Both were probably tested on humans for at least around five years prior to approval.  There are many other JAK inhibitor “-tinibs” out there that may be approved soon too.

Longtime JAK Superfan “nasa_rs” and his Blast from the Past

About one week ago, nasa_rs asked me to find an important link to a relatively old study that he had posted in one of his past comments on this blog.  I found the link (it was in my Elon Musk post and I even replied to it at the time) and was excited to read the contents of the study, which was published back in 1994.  Not sure why I never mentioned that great find before.  In any case here it is.  The key quote:

The hair growth stimulating effect of CsA is observed not only in normal but also in pathological conditions of hair growth, i.e. in patients with alopecia areata and also in some patients with male-pattern alopecia.

Clear evidence that immune system suppressants help hair. However, I am not sure how closely cyclosporin A and FK506 are linked to JAK inhibitors.  Also, later on in the abstract they mention that topical application of FK506 induces hair growth in mice, but oral ingestion does not.  A similar situation as with JAK inhibitors so more good news. However, in the abstract they do suggest that this means that the hair growth effects of FK506 may not be related to immune suppression, since oral ingestion does not help hair growth. Topical application might be impacting some other mechanism that is not well elucidated as yet per the study authors.

FYI — This was supposed to be my big blog post last week, but I first postponed it because I had delayed discussing the Dr. Rendl presentation for too long and needed to do that, and then of course I had to postpone it again due to the excellent new development discussed in the last post.  Matt and nasa_rs had some discussion about the above study in the comments to the last post, but perhaps they can do that in this post now.

“Matt” (aka “matt”)

When I first started this blog, I was hoping there would be at least a few very intelligent (at least when it comes to biology and chemistry) people who post accurate highly technical comments on here every so often so as to overcome my own shortcoming as well as laziness in reading up in that area.  I think user “Matt” is now the go to guy for that purpose, and we are all grateful to have him on board as can be inferred from the numerous appreciative comments that he has received in the comments to the last post.  I find it funny that so many people who are appreciative of him (including myself) probably do not even understand half of what he writes.  However, my intuition tells me that what he is writing is accurate and grounded in legitimate science.  I would encourage people to go through all his comments in the last post (you can search via ctrl-f to find his name on each page of comments).  Matt, you can repeat (i.e. paste) some of your most useful comments to the last post within this post’s comments if you want since most people will not want to search through those 500 comments.  One of these days, I hope I will have time to go through your most important comments in extreme detail.  FYI — “Matt” also goes by “matt”, and there was another commentator who briefly used the same name before my asking him to change it.

One of the interesting things that Matt wrote caught my eye:

It sure looks like jak/stat signaling has a ton to do with all of hair biology (really, all of biology in general) not just AA.

This is clear, just based on the number of conditions that the -inib drugs are already approved to treat or pending approval to treat. Moreover, there are many studies out there that suggest totally unexpected benefits of JAK inhibitors and the JAK-STAT signaling pathway (e.g., white-to-brown fat cell conversion).

362 thoughts on “JAK Inhibitor Updates and Miscellaneous Notes”

  1. guys there is one thing i cant take it anymore on this forum is that you think big pharma shelf potential cures!!!!

    are you seriously f-ing with me? Do you know how they struggle with price margins? do you how much their market share lost due to local brands? in some countries specialist can not even prescribe big brands if you have a local substitute.

    Say everything you can… but never ever say they implicitly keep cures going out to public… from 90s till now, you have no idea how much Merck, GSK , Pfizer….etc has lost market share and their profitability decreased.

    do you know how desperate they are to find a cure and make money? you have no f-ing idea…

    still not convinced? let me tell you this, if they dont come up with anything in next decade they all will be gone….

  2. i am serious guys. no joke.. I know it because i work for one… each day local brands and local regulations are killing our margins and profitability. we can not survive without developing a cure.. once you patented it, u r sorted for the next two decades… and if u talking about hairloss? image a simple pill or topical will make u NW0.. i am seriously asking why the hell on earth they want to keep it to themselves?
    do you know how desperate we are to find the cure for cancer treatments?
    last week in our monthly sales meeting, sales was blaming me because products didnt come on time. And you know what they told me? we lost 10 people because u didnt do your job well…
    just think about it before you make any false acquisitions…

    1. The problem is that there is no real Open Access when it comes to hair loss research. Yes we can see the articles at Pubmed and other sites, but not everything will be published which means that progress is being made but not as fast as it could go when everything would be openly accessible.
      This counts for other health issues as well btw.

      Yes pharmacy is working hard, yes they are eager to find the solution first, because they have to satisfy the shareholders, otherwise the shareholders force the management to fire employees.

      Desperate for money not desperate to stop the hair loss suffering my friend

  3. @donitello. I’m not being sarcastic! It’s a great post and you are absolutely right. People are working very very hard.

  4. Assuming that jak works is there no way they can release it without waiting for 5-7 years, like non? How about they just find the correct way of preparing a topical and then start mass production of the stuff so it is cheaper and we suddenly start getting sick and physicians start prescribing this stuff? Is there NO WAY we can bypass the system?

  5. Thanks man… guys, please understand there is alot of frustration in big pharma… u think grass is greener on the other side.. but i assure you it is not…
    we are not in 80s 90s anymore. when you put a price tag whatever you want and sell millions…
    You can find our products in local brands as well. say about propecia right? there are many generic versions and I am pretty sure you all dont use Merck right? do you think Merck is happy with it? they are losing their shares…

  6. Donitello, can you tell us in your opinion why we havent heard from samumed and Allergan in a while? Also why hasn’t setipiprant trials begun yet when its been made several years ago and they already did a trial for asthma? Why arent they hurrying up? Im not expressing sarcasm don, I want to be educated.

    1. i dont know man… i am in logistics and mainly responsible for transportation of goods..

      however my opinion about samumed and such, these companies now are worth billions in stock market. that i agree. however what is the product? it is all just concept.. and even concept was enough to pimp up the stock value… however situation can change in one night…
      it was how stem cell research market was crashed in 2000s..
      probably they are busy with creating product and value proposition

    1. Looking at the research papers it doesn’t seem the same as Aclaris approach, because brevillin a isn’t a “selective jak3 inhibitor” even though it’s similar. I bet it’s good for hair but It’s not going to trigger miraculous regrowth.

  7. I’m just going to get an fue for my hairline temples and call it a day. I just need an fue where they don’t shave my head. I work in sales and I can’t be out looking like my head was cut up.

    I think we over analyze and read into things too much. The reason there are delays and treatments like jak being 2nd place to AA for trials and hsc taking forget is because the stuff doesn’t work well. Plain and simple. Propecia and crap Rogaine is all we have for the time being. Bronzu probably doesn’t work either since he is taking his sweet ass time posting results. Why all the secrecy for mpb treatments but none for AA. It’s weird

    1. One thing you’ll have to consider with transplants is scar tissue. When a treatment does come out, you’ll be at a disadvantage.

    2. You seem to be in a bad mood today, Mjones. Remember, not everyone who does FUE is happy with it. It is not a panacea. There was just a guy on here the other day who said he had one and it ruined his hair line forever. Even if he shaves it now… his scalp will show the remnants of the procedure. Good luck…

      1. That’s what I am afraid of ddog. Scar tissue and a botch job. I know I will probably never go through with it because honestly I’m terrified of doing it after seeing YouTube videos of fue procedure. I am having a bad day too, sorry for bringing my bad mood on this forum. It’s just my hair is thinning out to fast even on Propecia Rogaine Latisse and niz. It’s like wtf type of super mpb genes do I have. Just frustrated because I’m doing everything possible that is safe and approved. Won’t touch dut or ru. Last thing I need is erectile dysfunction. I’m at the point where if something like histogen or sm would come out right now it would save me. If nothing comes out for 3 to 5 years it will be too late. Doubt this new stuff is as good as we think it will be. Maybe follica if their 100cm2 coverage is legit

  8. Paul Phoenix I think you need to start tweeting or sending 100 emails a day stating your catch phrase “we need new treatments, it’s 2016, Propecia Rogaine are stone age, we need better treatments asap”. They might actually hear you and realize we are frustrated:) send it to histogen, sm, aclaris, follica, etc 20 years is a long ass time with no new treatments

    1. Like I have said before. Mentally prepare yourself to be bald. That is the card we have been dealt. If a miracle comes out, and saves us, awesome, but prepare yourself. Do all the things you need to do without hair to appeal to women.. I see a lot of dudes now who are bald with gorgeous women. Women get heavier as they age, and the majority of the men get balder. Keep fit, brother. If no one wants to be with you because you don’t have hair, you probably sucked to begin with.

      1. Totally agree ddog. It’s not the women that is my problem. I work out, make good money, cool dude and meet women all the time. It’s just I’m very sensitive about my appearance. I was always the stylish, modern dude amongst my friends who always styled his hair, worse designer clothes etc. Don’t want to lose that lifestyle by losing my hair. I work hard for everything and always succeed. This is the first thing, mpb that is kicking my ass no matter how hard I fight it

        1. I think maybe you were meant to transition away from that. Seems like kind of a shallow existence. It is one that 20 year old men live. Not to insult you.. but I think if you conquer your vanity, you may be happier. Find a girl, get married, and focus on kids.. I am sure you will fine your worry about your hair will melt away.

  9. Speaking of work..i work with this guy that is always trying to put me down. I mind my own business and he always trying to make me look bad to others. He constantly brags how great he is at everything and how his worse fear is going bald (he has great hair). He makes fun of what hair I have left and is constantly on me. Sometimes I ignore him, other times I get few up and go back at him. He is really tight with the supervisors so i cant go to them. I can see it really bothers him when I try and make things better for myself like dress nice or if aomeone says something nice to me. Im tired of the anxiety of going into work everyday to be put down.

    1. People like your coworker need to get their ass kicked. Anyone who pokes fun of balding people are just scum. I know a guy that makes fun of everyone when it comes to looks. Always making fun of bald people like it’s their fault they lose their hair. It disgusts me. However this guy is the most insecure dude that I know and he is miserable deep inside. Very jealous kid. I’m sure you coworker is too. I have never made fun of anyone on how they look. Even before my hair loss. I was raised with respect. People like him deserve to go bald

    2. @tom

      Just ignore that idiota. Dont hide your self. I Know is not easy. Just call him to talk in privet and say to him that you are not bald for option. Says to him you dont feel comfortable with a person who spends time playing with the diseases of others. Certainly will understand. If not day it again but give him the feeling you will stop that next time but will be wors to him.

    3. If I learnt one thing in life is that nothing is what it seems. And when people highlight certain things it’s because they lack it. The likely truth is this coworker of yours is insecure and unhappy about many things. He picks on you to make himself feel better. Once i realised that, when my verbal bully used to take me I would just smile and give him a pitiful look, don’t react, he’ll soon get bored.

  10. No, I’ve seen a lot of married men with kids and still upset about it. I think it depends of a person personality

  11. @mjones

    First. Dont do HT. You will up you head when any better traetment go to the market. Maybe you will fine 2 3 or 5 years but in the end you genes will kill the rest of you hair. You will end in a terriblr situation in the futuro.

    Second. Then you enter in a clínical trial you can tell thats is happend. But way you say that we have info about AA clínical trial? Because FDA was aproved something like a law to AA ppl can talk to the comunity about this study. I post a link the other day about that.

    One Last thing.
    This clínical trial i didnt Know until today is the drog a jak thing or is another thing? Sorry if this was talk in the past.

    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02676310

    Ends next year.

      1. I had heard that there last trial(s) only demonstrated 1% absorption of Bim from their formulation so they were going back to work on vehicle/delivery. This may be the reason for the phase 1 restart. Although disappointing, it would seem to indicate they believe they have something worth pursuing.

  12. I kind of like the idea that jak inhibitors only work topically for AGA. That answers my big question of why nobody taking systematic jak inhibitors for other prescribed uses didn’t stumble upon the cure for mpb. That was something that had bothered me, but now I know why!

  13. I really feel big Parma buy out promising treatments just to shelf those treatment to protect their own profit margins. It happens in all types of business industries. No conspiracy theory here just business 101.

    @ Tom I have a worker at my work exaclly like that too! He has recently got a new job description which is much more stressful. He has now started itching the back of his scalp constantly where a bold area has appeared. It called Karma.

    And I’m 38 with 2 kids and I still care about my hair.

  14. My final worry is whether or not my four HT surgeries on top of my head have killed all of my dormant hair cells.

    I’m trying to imagine what would happen if someone with a full head of hair had thousands of needle punches to the scalp. I wonder how much hair would be left? I hope it’s at least 50%. The good news is I already have about 25% of a thick head of hair just from the surgery results, so at least I have that to start with.

  15. Guys dr king is already treating patients for AA and it didnt pass the clinical trials and isnt approved yet … Could this be happening for topical jak for aga next year what do u think?

  16. “My final worry is whether or not my four HT surgeries on top of my head have killed all of my dormant hair cells.”

    Can’t you just regrow new follicles through wounding? Correct me if I’m wrong, but jaks are supposed to go hand-in-hand with wounding to attain results anyway. So I don’t understand why this continues to be a concern to some.

  17. Can someone here explain me how JAK will work? i meant;
    1. Do they know how to make a compound (what to mix and with what)?
    2. if JAK are already FDA aproved, how long is gonna take to hit the market?
    3. How they know that topically it works on AGA?
    4. When they are gonna start the trials?

    Thanks in advance guys!

    Cheers

  18. for aga it’s gonna take several years, probably 5 to 7, they know it works for aga and dr walker said that his colleagues are trying it and the results are interesting, the trials for aga maybe will start and the end of 2017 …..

    1. but if dr Walker’s colleagues are trying now and they know it works, why we cant get the compound they have and try it ourself?

  19. Also, Majones you overthink too much. Why can’t you be a bald/balding dude and still dress in your current style? I’ve known a few baldies that dress designer and “trendy” and it’s not a big deal. If anything it helps improve their appearance.

    1. Hi Kain. I will keep dressing nicely and stuff but you and I both know hair makes the face and the clothes and style look better with a full head of hair. I just wish mpb was total loss of body hair instead of scalp hair. That horseshoe pattern loss looks so unattractive

  20. I wonder if the Follica treatment will produce compoundable results. So if you could get 25 new terminal hairs per cm2 fr your first procedure, then a year or two later go for a repeat procedure and get another 25. No one knows for sure what the 75 ‘neogenic hairs’ will look like or they will turn into terminal hairs, so for that reason I rather consider Follica capable of yielding 25 (or even 15-20) new thick hairs per cm2. I just hope this hair count info from Puretech is a proven certainty and not guessing made up bs.

    Also, I hope the follica procedure will cover the entire scalp as a standard practise. I would want to get it on the sides, sideburns and nape area as well as the top and crown.

    1. I would want it for the top of my head and beard. My facial hair is weak. 15 to 25cm2 comes out how many hairs all over the scalp? Would this be better than ht coverage?

    2. Neogenic means newly formed. I think what the presentation attempts to say is that for every one existing terminal hair the procedure produces three new hairs. Presumably these would be made terminal by a compound like fgf9. The real question though is, like you say, if the results can be repeated with repeat procedures. If so, it’s a functional cure.

      1. It sure would be great if it meant 3 new hairs for every pre-existing hair!

        However their presentation says “TCP creates 100 new hairs/ cm2 (1/4 terminal, 3/4 neogenic)”. This clearly signifies that the 1/4 terminal hairs are newly created through TCP. A bit confusing since that would also make the terminal hairs ‘neogenic’. Maybe only the ones described as ‘terminal’ would be cosmetically relevant.

        I would take 20 new terminal hairs per cm2. I still hope that ghe smaller neogenic hairs could be made terminal. Thousands of tiny new vellus hairs incapable of becoming terminal might give a strange texture and appearance.

    1. Quite “Dr. Sidbury has a compounding pharmacy make topical tofacitinib 2% in a liposomal base, which achieves better penetration than Versabase. He recommends Chemistry Rx in Philadelphia for compounding.
      “I have no financial interest, I’ve just found them incredibly helpful. The cost is $330 for 30 g. That’s not dirt cheap by a long shot, but I’ve looked into this for parents before I was aware of the Chemistry Rx option, and the cost was thousands and thousands of dollars when I tried to get it compounded in a local pharmacy that didn’t have the economy of scale,” he said.
      Patients apply the topical JAK inhibitor twice daily. “I’ve probably got six or seven kids on topical JAK inhibitor therapy for alopecia areata, and I’ve seen responses in all of them”” copy paste into google for source. They do regular tests on patients to monitor for side effects which can be serious.

    1. It’s been a year now since they made the cream ( August 2015). I mean we supposed to hear about it last year ?!?

  21. For sure pharmacists will make the topical jak and we don’t really need to wait 7 years. The same thing happened with minox, people were crushing the pill and applying on the scalp before FDA approves it

    1. And is legal? There are patents…… And the data of the foto is July 2015. Where you find that? Somy user can send a msg about what is that photo. My vocabilary is a lot bad lol

    2. I hope so. But the major problem I see with that is the cost. Right now some of the treatments that I see being used by AA patients/ people on the web are SUPER expensive. I couldn’t imagine paying $3000+ every month for that cream but who knows.

      Obviously if they were mass producing it for a specific product (cream), the price would come way down (using simple logic) but that won’t happen until it is FDA approved, I assume.

      1. It will not be $3000 a month unless it insurers WIDELY agree to cover it. Then yeah they may price it really high as nobody using it will end up footing the bill.

        Otherwise, they know $3000/month would drop their potential target market from 3B people to 1,000 people.

    1. I think any doctor that is convinced that it would help with the problem would would prescribe it off label. But no tests = no prescription.

    1. Wow… That’s f crazy expensive. $61/pill is outrageous – honestly how can a company really find it ethical to charge so much for a medication?

      Xeljanz’s patent ends Dec. 31 2018… so 2.5 years before this stuff becomes cheaper/ generic version is possible? And my guess is that it would be MUCH cheaper.

  22. Honestly, I doubt doctors would prescribe it. The side effect profile orally is awful. Unless you and your doc are tight friends, it’s unlikely.

    1. Oral side effects are going to be different than topical side effects. There are plenty of people online that already get it prescribed orally off label (do a search there are a ton of references).

      @khourii – I highly doubt a mass produced cream (for AGA) would be so high. Like anything manufactured – the more they make, the lower the cost. I personally could see it being $1000 over 6 months starting out but will undoubtedly get cheaper overtime + generics coming out.

    2. Almost all medications have bad side effect profiles… they are more a product of the legal department covering the Ps and Qs than any real scientific merit.

      Look at accutane, which has just as bad a list of “potential” side effects but is prescribed WIDELY

  23. The pill form is $3000 but what about the cream form? Even if $3000 I can afford it I just want to know the way to get it

    1. Khourri,

      You can afford $3000 a month?
      Anyone who can, tell us your profession and company, we want that kind of job too 🙂

      1. just because Netherlands is shite at paying and pay almost 50% tax doesnt mean expats in Dubai can not afford right? schöne jonge… snap je wat ik zeg?

    2. Drug pricing doesn’t always have to do with the cost of making it. Sometimes it is high because insurance companies will foot the bill anyway. Sometimes they are trying to recuperate their past investment (sometimes 10+ years of investing in trials). Sometimes it is high because they have a patent and nobody else has it. Sometimes it is high because, while it does solve a problem and solves it well, there aren’t THAT many people with the problem…thus, they get almost 100% of their market buying it, but the market is small… thus they charge a lot to get back their investment….

      The point is, many factors go into the cost of it, beyond manufacturing costs (which often times are not much). This treatment will most likely not be $3,000 a month… it is also possible that once it is available for psoriasis in topical form, you can get that form prescribed “off-label” by the doctor.. thus covered by insurance.

      1. They know the market is huge… and that charging $50k a year for the topical creme is going to cut that huge market WAY WAY down. They want to find a balance between a high price and massive adoption of people using it. They don’t wan’t to charge $50k/yr and only sell it to 1,000 people worldwide. They want to charge $1k/yr and sell it to 2B people a year….

        These folks are not stupid.

      1. Active ingredient, Berberis aquifolium (“Oregon Grape”) extract. This extract is primarily the compound Berberine. Berberine is a selective JAK3 inhibitor. If you search my posts in this thread, I linked a scientific study that makes this statement. I know all this by use of google.

  24. This psoriasis stuff is making me very intreged because my father suffers from it. I don’t have signs of it but I wonder if there is a connection between it and the hair loss that we suffer. Inflammation again…

  25. Weren’t you guys talking about getting the pills, crushing them, and making a cream until the actual stuff reaches market?

  26. My hope is that PSI( osh101) would work. It would be great if Admin could contact with guys who used it in past. Or the company which conducted trials.

    1. It doesn’t work. Somebody is using it in a private forum. He has been on it for 6+ months and grew maybe 15 new hairs.

        1. well he is going to need the results to increase 20x to get even remotely close to a cosmetic difference. I don’t see him going from growing 2 hairs in the middle of a sea of baldness to magically sprouting 50 hairs per cm just because he does 8 cycles instead of the 4 he did.

          I am not hopeful that we’ll see such a drastic turn around…

    1. Listening to Christiano again on the BTT interview @21:30 she stated that
      “if someone started today with an approved… in 3 years there’s no reason they couldn’t have completed a phase 1, almost phase 2. There’s no reason an efficacy indicator couldn’t be had within the next 3 to 5 years.”
      She also states it is a quick “go/ no go” and that it will be obvious if it works relatively fast.

      I think it would be pretty obvious that if Aclaris goes to Phase 2 with JAK for AGA, it would mean that the efficacy is a strong positive.

      I know that it doesn’t answer your question but really… I think we are going to have to wait 3 years for the phase 1 study to come out and we will know if this is fully legit… but I also think that the lab already knows that with their own trials… as she said… it is a pretty obvious go/no go… and if that is the case why even go into a phase 1 trial if it is so easy/ quick to find out if it works or not.

      Link to the BTT show:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6C0-wiNlZU

      Cheers!

  27. Happy Father’s day to all our bald dads who fought hair loss without any effective treatment to raise strong hard working guys like us who have better hope in a hair loss treatment:) They fought hair loss with no hope to get hair back but still managed succeed in life. True men right there!

    1. Not bad but still has that pluggy look along the hair line. However the density is decent. This matched with follica plus histogen could yield very impressive results

      1. Nice post @mjones. People with MPB need Histogen (HSC) and follica. IMO Perhaps hair transplant doctors in the very near future works with HSC for more density. FUE+HSC.

        1. Histogen does work Farhan we have seen pics. Yes there is some comb over stuff but the dude hair was thicker and more coverage. Definitely not a cure but an excellent addition to ht Propecia Rogaine and hopefully follica

    1. Couple things happening here.

      Both those guys have EXTREMELY thick hair. So that is what is giving them the coverage post op. And it looks amazing.

      Down side as Mjones pointed out is that the hairline looks “pluggy” but really… if that is your only worry after this procedure I really think you’re golden.

      I think in general with thinner hair your hairline will look more natural but in turn your coverage won’t be as great.
      Something more like this guy (take note that he also got about half the grafts): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK_BOFLY2uk

      What do you guys think? Would you do a procedure like one of these? I’m a NW 3, 30 years and feel like I should wait at least another 5 years for various reasons (future treatments, see where the hairline goes, advancement in HTs, price reduction in HTs etc) before considering an HT but when I see these videos… sometimes they get me interested. I’d love to hear your opinions (and not your yelling, screaming rage).

      1. Hi Curious,

        I am waiting for 2017 and 2018, for Thorne, Histogen, Follica, Shiseido/Replicel.
        If those treatments work well enough, I skip the transplant.
        They are probably much cheaper.

        If those treatments don’t give enough coverage, I will go for treatment + a good HT like the one I’ve posted, travelling to Spain for instance is no issue.

        If the treatments don’t come out, I won’t get a transplant because I keep losing ground, so I’ll wait forJAK in 2019/2020.

        I hope HT prices will drop the upcoming 2 years.

  28. Of course Curious. You are right in all of your explication. Hair transplant are very expensives. This situation is deplorable.

    1. I don’t know Paul… If I could spend $15 – 20,000usd knowing that I would never have to worry about my hair again I would do it, maybe with some hesitation but in the end I know I would. It would be worth the comfort to me… but I’m not into daily medications that have potential sides and don’t have significant results after the HT.

      But the thing with HTs is that it isn’t a sure thing that you know you won’t need anything else in the future… that’s the big draw back for me. It’s one of those things that I would consider doing but feel that NW3 at age 30 is too soon… I could potentially progress further even though it took me 7+ years to fully progress from NW2 to NW3… I wish I could just have a good calculation to know when/ where my hair will end up.
      If I knew I would go to NW 5+ I would probably just throw in the towel at some point if there isn’t a treatment that could bring it back. But I have a friend that progressed from NW1or2 to NW 4 in 4 to 5 years and then it just stopped (hasn’t move at all in the past 5 years)… I actually have considered telling him that I personally think an HT would work for him… he has a ton of donor area if he doesn’t progress further.

    1. Yea, or possible find a third party to verify the batch. That is what guys on that private forum do. I would be in for a group buy…

  29. netshed… that’s why i would never get a ht.
    for me, doesn’t look good at all and i’d never want to butcher my scalp and ruin any future chances.
    i’m desperate but in my opinion, not impressed at all and i’d rather shave my head and wait for the cure.

    1. Yes I am waiting for a treatment / cure as well.
      If that does not work well enough, but at least stops the progression, I would fill in the rest with HT.

      1. Why not both. A fue now and maybe in 5 years when there is something better you can take that treatment. Maybe together you get the result you want!

        1. Most of us are afraid that a HT now might destroy a lot of our dormant follicles, which could mean that for instance HSC or JAK later won’t work as good as they should.

  30. I just want to know what Follica’s method is really capable of. Will it really create full robust, thick de novo hairs or just de novo vellus hairs?

  31. I havent been thru all the comments, and I don’t claim an absolute understanding of scientific studies/papers but it seems there are some otc substances that have an effect on the jak/stat pathway which i havent seen mentioned or pursued: luteolin, kaempferol, myrecetin, glucosamine. I’ve been using a self made topical glucosamine for about a year now, and my hair has slightly improved over that time span; no small feat for a balding individual.

    1. The first 3 substances you mentioned are all flavonoids. I saw researchers can buy these at for instance Sigma-Aldrich. But there might be more mnufacturers of these components.

      BTW, Merck recently has finished the acquisition of Sigma-Aldrich …

  32. That FUE video looks completely like a wig or at best a dead giveaway hair transplant. Dunno why someone would want to look like they wear a hat made of human hair. But… if the guy is happy who cares what we think.

  33. @James, I really dont think we’ll ever see anything from Follica. Ppl seem to worship this Cots guy but has he ever produced a single piece of evidence?? I hope he’ll blast onto the stage within long with a solid new treatment but I highly doubt it.

    1. Puretech have said that if Follica’s data read-out in 2017 is favourable then they will seek fda approval for release as soon as 2018. So by next year we should know if they will follow through on that. If we hear nothing or the data is unfavorable then it would be safe to assume they have nothing. Until then we should remain hopeful.

  34. King of hair loss research bro ! BTW I think JAK cream for AA will work for AGA as well, what do you guys think ?

  35. Glycosamine and chondroitin cream are often recommended to treat Reumatoid Artritis. They have a modest effect in terms of relieve.

    Chondroitin being a natural glycosamineglycan inhibits STAT3 in human keratinocytes and has a potential antiPsoriatic effect.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23276728/

    Everytime the same diseases are ‘linked’ with each other, due to same medicines, the same inhibitors, the same pathways, the immune response, the inflammation.

    Psoriasis, SEczema, Vitiligo, RArtritis, AAreata. Most of us now believe AAndrogenetica should be on that same list as being a (slow) auto immune disease as well.

    Especially the knowledge of JAK Master Matt in relation to STAT3 and IL6 has at least convinced me, that the researchers are on the right track with JAK.

  36. Cots is the man! Do not doubt his work. That’s how Greeks work. We work in silence and quietness due to fear that our work will be replicated. Then bam! Huge successful treatment. Just wait and see.

  37. BTW cots is the director of the most advanced and funded hair loss group within the university of PA. Been hosted on numerous talk shows, news channels and good morning America, the Doctors, NBC news etc. If he doesn’t have a treatment then we can pretty much just shave our heads and move on. Nothing else has a better chance at the moment

    1. I hope so mjones.

      I quietly trust Cots. I hope he is now positioning Follica to deliver something groundbreaking in 2018.

      I just wish that in the meantime he would give all us guys some hope… even if it was just by confirming what the puretech document said about 100 new hairs per cm2. Is it puretech people saying that or Cots himself stating it as fact? Unless I hear it from Cots himself I cannot truly believe it isn’t some hyperbole that hasn’t been proven by Cot’s technique.

      If Cots could just confirm it as true and clarify their definition of terminal and neogenic hairs, we could then all relax a bit in the knowledge that follicular reinforcements are on their way.

  38. Mjones Dr cots for you is the same that jak for nasa… And Histogen for me until i reserch more about them…. To be honest i feel nothing big will happen 🙁 but in other way i trust more in reserch from a doctor or professor than pharma that are in the stock market. They are living since 2000’s from especulation. How many drogs histogen, follica, follicum, samumed got out to the market in the passar 10 years or less? Zero i think. You are so Lucky that you can shave your heads an move on. :, (
    And you Know that then you are in a trial you cant now talk about it on the Internet. Not for AGA but for AA you can. In some forun is easy to read about people with AA but all is about jak. Nothing from histogen and other.

  39. Hey Matt, what do you think of this?

    “We detected the significant upregulation of miR-221, miR-125b, miR-106a and miR-410 in balding papilla cells.”

    Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21967250

    miR-221 downregulates STAT1 and STAT2:

    “Unlike miR-145 which is commonly down-regulated in tumors, miR-221/222 are often up-regulated in cancers [23, 27, 28]. Among the genes whose expression levels are altered by antisense-mediated knockdown of miRs-221/222 in U251 glioma cells, ones in the IFN-α signaling pathway are the most significantly modulated, and this observation is dependent on increased expression of STAT1 and STAT2 [23]. Consistently, overexpression of miR-221/222 in U251 glioma cells interferes with IFN signaling by down-regulating STAT1 and STAT2 [23].”

    Source: http://www.bloodjournal.org/content/117/16/4338.long?sso-checked=true

    Consistent with this, according to recent microarray data from Chew et. al, STAT1 and STAT2 are downregulated at the mRNA level in balding dermal papilla cells. In fact, all STATs are downregulated. Also, gene ontology analysis in PANTHER returns interferon pathways as the most enriched pathways among downregulated genes in balding DPCs.

    miR-125b and miR-106a both downregulate STAT3:

    “In addition, we identified 2 potential miR-125b-binding sites within the 3′UTR of Stat3 (Figure 4B), a transcription factor strongly involved in granulocytic differentiation.35,36 To demonstrate direct regulation by miR-125b, luciferase reporter containing wild-type Stat3 3′UTR sequences or their mutant-derivates with deletion of the putative miR-125b-binding sites were transfected into NIH3T3 cells stably over-expressing miR-125b (NIH3T3/miR-125b; Figure 4B and supplemental Figure 3A). As shown in Figure 4C, miR-125b represses luciferase activity by approximately 40% depending on the presence of miR-125b binding in the Stat3 3′UTR. Finally, Western blotting revealed an approximately 30%-40% reduction of STAT3 protein expression in 32D/miR-125b compared with 32D/miR-ctrl cells (Figure 4D).”

    Source: http://www.bloodjournal.org/content/117/16/4338.long?sso-checked=true

    “Quantitative real-time PCR and Western blotting demonstrated that miR-106a was upregulated, and STAT3 and phospho-STAT3 were downregulated in the hippocampus at 12 weeks post-OVX, compared with age matched controls and the 6 and 8 weeks post-OVX groups. Transfection of human neuroblastoma SH-SY5Y cells with a miR-106a mimic reduced the expression of STAT3 mRNA, compared to control cells transfected with a scrambled mimic. STAT3 and phospho-STAT3 protein expression was upregulated or downregulated by a miR-106a inhibitor or miR-106a mimic, respectively, indicating that miR-106a negatively regulates STAT3. Luciferase reporter gene assays confirmed that miR-106a directly targets the 3′ untranslated region (UTR) of STAT3.”

    Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23399684

    Is this the result of negative feedback from higher JAK-STAT activity or something else?

  40. Guys I know this is a shot in the dark and im off topic but im hoping “JulioGP” from tbt visits this forum. I need some help with instructions for doing prp at home. Im not going to ask on that site because I closed all other accounts after some people found out I was looking and contributing to the hair forums. Very embarrassing. So im hoping I can connect with JulioGP somehow on here. If anyone can nessa for me I would be very grateful. Thanks guys!

  41. @Swoop

    Which clinic/doctor did you see in Turkey for your HT?

    Seriously considering the HT route and value your experience and opinion.

    Thanks!

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