Increasing 3-Alpha-Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase to Treat Hair Loss?

Update: June 30, 2021 — We demonstrated that sulforaphane has the potential to become a highly effective functional hair cosmetic to relieve hair loss with AGA.

Update: I did not realize that the Technion University team from Israel (which I covered briefly last year under 3D printed comb) has a few pages on their website covering this very subject of the 3-alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3α-HSD) enzyme. See their overview page, cofactor page, comb/design page, expression page, modeling page, secretion page and results page for more. Looks like they started this work in 2015.

FYI: “Roman” is now answering questions in the comments to this blog post. At some point I might delete most of the pasted chat messages at the bottom of this post.

On very rare occasions such as this one, I write a blog post that is almost entirely based upon some random person (typically a passionate intelligent hair loss forum member or e-mailer)’s unique thoughts that I find very interesting and logical, even if I barely understand half of such thoughts unless I am able to devote significant time deciphering various acronyms and scientific terms. Generally, I trust and defer to my intuition in these cases and promote such people and their theories without devoting more than several hours of research unless I really have a lot of free time on my hands. FYI: An example of such a past recent post: Intelligent balding men post their theories.

Roman’s First E-mail

On April 16th, a person by the name of “Roman” sent me the following interesting e-mail:

“Hi, below, I am pasting my messages on your chat for what I believe is the most under researched avenue for the hair loss cure and the polar opposite of the approach that finasteride takes. I think with the power you have you can get this out there as this is something that has been very poorly researched and possibly even hidden. Anyways, enjoy researching but I believe it really does tie the whole pgd2, dht and maybe even wnt pathway approaches under one enzyme: 3-alpha-hsd.”

He ended his e-mail with pasting his prior hair loss chat messages from this site, but I will paste those and other future chat messages that “Roman” made all together at the end of this post since the organization is very haphazard.

Roman’s Second E-mail

I replied to Roman, mostly in the form of an excuse that I could not devote time on research this past week even though I found his thoughts highly interesting. Below is his second e-mail to me from April 18th:

“Thanks for your reply and I totally understand your work load. As for a compressed version of my research, as we both know alpha 5ar converts T to DHT. Well there turns out to be an “antimatter” sort of enzyme present in every human’s musculoskeletal structure called 3 alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3a HSD) which converts all T and DHT to 3 adiol g (another testosterone by-product which is not harmless to hair and way less androgenous). Now if propecia can work so well off blocking off alpha 5ar then in theory the exact same should be the case for promoting 3a hsd in synthesis in the body. And finally, the side effects of 3a hsd upregulation should be fractional compared to alpha 5ar downregulation as the reason for the most of the propecia side effects is the lack of DHT being created. Conversely, DHT will be allowed to generate under this treatment, however, the 3a hsd will instantly de-activate it. The big hope from my side is that there is a topical way to introduce 3a hsd to the scalp as that will exterminate DHT from the scalp (as it does in the muscles). Even if there isn’t there’s easily another (potentially a lot safer) variant of propecia waiting to be developed.

A link to start off your research is:

Note the paragraph on DHT deactivation in the muscles. Its basically local DHT deactivation which is what everyone has been longing for for decades. It happens everyday in our own body without any negative effects!

Anyways, I hope you find this topic as captivating as I do and I wish you the best of luck on everything to do with your blog and your research on this matter.

Kind Regards,

PS. if you were on the chat “ihavethecure” “klijom” and “klijomss” were all my names because people kept stealing my name lol!”

Roman sent me two additional e-mails with several useful individual links in there that I discuss below.

My Initial Thoughts and Various Links of Interest

I get many e-mails every week, and typically I only learn something truly interesting from 20-30 percent of them. Right away I knew that Roman’s e-mail was one of those. It does seem like increasing the expression of the 3α-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme will reduce DHT and lead to a reduction in hair loss and perhaps even lead to regrowth of hair that has been lost in recent years. Perhaps this approach will lead to far fewer side effects than the current approach of using Finasteride or Dutasteride to reduce DHT?

Roman pasted the following 2006 study link in his e-mail that also mentions a PGD2 connection (a difficult read for non-scientists):

Increased expression of type 2 3-alpha-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase/type 5 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase
(AKR1C3) and its relationship with androgen receptor in prostate carcinoma.

— During my initial research, I found a 2005 thread on on the same subject as well as a 2013 thread on

In one of Roman’s later chat messages, he posted the following recent 2016 study link that is much more relevant to our hair loss cause and easier to understand in its abstract format:

— Sulforaphane promotes murine hair growth by accelerating the degradation of dihydrotestosterone.

Key quote from above:

“Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) causes the regression of human hair follicles in the parietal scalp, leading to androgenic alopecia (AGA). Sulforaphane (SFN) increases the expression of DHT degrading enzymes, such as 3α-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenases (3α-HSDs), and, therefore, SFN treatment may improve AGA.”

— Another interesting link on Sulforaphane and DHT reduction that someone on the chat posted (could be Roman). Seems like broccoli has yet one more benefit.

— Finally, on April 18, someone who read Roman’s chat messages on this blog started this useful thread on the hairlosstalk forums that is well worth following.

It seems like antidepressants (SSRIs in particular) can also impact 3-alpha-hydroxysteroid levels…I will write more on that later if there is any interesting potential going that route.

Roman’s Hair Loss Chat Messages

Note that “Roman” has used a few different names in the chat as he mentioned in his e-mail. One person might have used his chat name with minor modification for some reason (I do not require registration on the hair loss chat on this site). In any case, I have tried to post only Roman’s chat messages below and those from others that were related to the subject. In reverse chronological order from the past week with some dates deleted by mistake (4/22/16 –> 4/16/16):

asfasas 4/22/2016 3:10
“conclusion kijom ??”

I am not yet at the conclusion I am still actively researching the matter. What I have discovered though is that 3a hsd is an enzyme which is located in various parts of the body where it deactivates DHT. Now I am researching there is sufficient presence of 3a hsd in the scalp and if not, whether there are viable ways to introduce it to the scalp.

2020 4/21/2016 9:42
Can someone please simplify this for me

2020 4/21/2016 9:42
This is so confusing what you guys are talking about.

yazed 4/21/2016 7:41
conclusion kijom ??

klijom 4/21/2016 4:33
okay idk why its putting an emoji in it but I promise it works lol

klijom 4/21/2016 4:33

klijom 4/21/2016 4:33
extremely interesting article for the (medically aware) people to read :

lmlmlm 4/21/2016 4:10
type 3 3a hsd **

lmlmlm 4/21/2016 4:09
basically whoever is researching this needs to find a way of upregulating akr1c2, or more specifically type 3a hsd in the scalp.

lmlmlm 4/21/2016 4:04
Thinking behind Ursodeoxycholic acid is that it is an akr1c2 upregulator but I am trying to see if it has any scalp benefits.

lmlmlm 4/21/2016 4:01
as a starting point in 3a hsd boosting medications is sulforaphane. I have just ordered some. Also if anyone has the medical capacity to research Ursodeoxycholic acid, that would be great as I keep running into walls.

jkjnk 4/21/2016 10:17
Localised deactivation of DHT happens all over your body; in your muscles, brain, liver etc etc. Now we just have to find a way to introduced localised deactivation in the scalp. Peace xoxo

jkjnk 4/21/2016 10:15
Looking deeper into the highest expressions of 3a hsd, you discover that in your muscles, DHT levels have no androgenic effects whatsoever, and this is all due to the constant life long deactivation of DHT by 3a hsd. Now that is the goal I am aiming for in the scalp; a life long deactivation of any DHT that comes into the scalp by 3a hsd without feminising the body the way that propecia does.

jkjnk 4/21/2016 10:12
The main problem why SSRI’s arent cropping people with full heads of hair is because the conversion of DHT to 17 b adiol is a reversable on. Therefore any dht converted to to 17b adiol will later be converted back to dht by alpha 5ar present in the scalp if there is no 3a hsd present.

jkjnk 4/21/2016 10:09
Also a pattern I noticed, no research behind this, is that morbidly obese men more often than not have full heads of hair. Curiously looking deeper in to this, I discovered that obese men express more 3a hsd in their systems

jkjnk 4/21/2016 10:07
There is so little research on 3a hsd. 3b hsd deficiency is topic that is researched way more. Basically type 3 3a hsd is the enzyme we are after and that comes under the akr1c2 gene. Now I am currently in the process of identifying how well 3a hsd is expressed in the scalp (if at all). The goal is to bring increased akr1c2 (increased type 3 3a hsd) expression to the scalp.

Klijomm 4/20/2016 11:08
i read of a 5 fold increase in 3ahsd activity following levothyroxine treatment in trial. any idea how this might relate to activity at the scalp? would any ssri amplify considering net impact?

kilojom 4/20/2016 3:08
Hi test. I have seen the post and will make an account to comment

ok 4/20/2016 4:37
klijommm, it’s me, “test” (I had to change my username in the chat). I made a HLT thread about 3a hsd the other day and people think it is really interesting. It would be great if you made an account and joined the discussion over there, since you have a lot of knowledge about this.

klijommm 4:43
Also this is bearing in mind that there is little 3a hsd present in the scalp and people are still noticing an improvement in their hair. Now if we could introduce higher amounts of 3a hsd to the scalp then i think that is game over rip gg for the hair loss industry. (PS stop stealing “klijom” lmao)

klijommm 4:41

klijommm 4:41
Sulforaphane is currently the best avenue for 3a hsd promotion in the body. Check the review (on a totally non hair loss related website) from the lady who is talking about its effects on her hair.

klijomm 2:05
if anyone wishes to get in touch with me regarding any 3a hsd matters pls email me at (please dont spam lol I’ll just delete the account)

klijomm 1:28
@m also equol is a non steroid estrogen whereas 3a hsd directly converts DHT to a less androgenous derivate of testosterone (not an estrogen) hence your point holds no substance

klijomm 1:27
@m here is a link to offer you some insight into the work that 3a hsd does and where it is present


klijomm 1:27
@m yes SSRI’s do increase 3a hsd activity but the problem is that there is not enough 3a hsd present in the scalp. Also SSRI’s are not designed to increase 3a hsd activity, it is merely a side effect. If a drug/method could be developed to introduce 3a hsd to the scalp then we are on to a real winner

klijomm 1:24
@test I would be more than happy for you to take over the topic and get it onto the HLT forum as I am not a member on any forum website. I really do appreciate your interest in the topic however and can assure you it (although it is difficult due to the lack of research done on the matter) it is totally worth researching!

test 3:51
klijom, 3a hsd sounds very interesting, I really hope that you are onto something here

test 3:49
Or else I’ll do it to get your word out there, I believe what you’re saying is very important! I’ll credit you of course

test 3:44
killjom, could you please make a thread on the HLT forum (new research, studies and technology) about this 3a hsd enzyme? That would help a lot

hujk 5:14
this 3a hsd topic sounds really interesting, especially the anti matter comparisons with alpha 5ar.

klijom 3:08
the best chance of a cure coming out is if someone takes 3a hsd seriously and finds a way to introduce it to the scalp. If I had any sort of background in biomedical science I would be working on it right now as it does not seem too difficult to introduce enzymes to the scalp (no chance of rejection if enzymes developed are taken from your own body) and virtually no chance of mutations (cancer).

klijom 7:38
There seems to be a recently formed small team in Israel called Technion who have also identified 3a hsd as the main culprit. It is interesting to see their valiant but a little amateurish experiment results.

klijom 7:24
… to block alpha 5ar. WE SURE AS HELL can create something to magnify 3a hsd activity. And it is my understanding that formulating a topical treatment is a million times easier when you are trying to boost a function than inhibit (hence the difficulties in formulating a topical propecia).

klijom4 7:22
Also check this out, isoretinoin, better known as accutane is a drug infamous for causing hair loss. the reason? Isotretinoin causes upregulation of D2 receptors. Upregulating D2 receptors is bound to lead to hair loss (see Dr Cotsarelis). Another side effect of isoretinoin?? IT INHIBITS 3A HSD ACTIVITY…..! It’s clear that the antimatter to alpha 5ar is indeed 3a hsd and if we can make propecia

klijom4 7:11

klijom4 7:03
I really hope the admin sees this and decides to address it in some form in the next article.

klijom4 7:02
…be at least a permanent topical (worst case scenario oral) treatment. The link of 3a hsd and prostate cancer again seems to solidify this claim as this is the exact route that propecia and alpha 5ar inhibition came from.

klijom4 7:01
Also it seems that many of the “hair loss fads” that we hear about e.g. coconut oil, olive oil etc may actually be increasing 3a hsd activity (in however small effect). Now if this effect can be harnessed and magnified which may be a lot easier than most of the other methods being developed at the moment (follica histogen etc) then we will have something that although not a cure but would

klijom4 6:57
…be a lot easier than trying to remove an enzyme from a scalp (alpha 5ar). I honestly am starting to believe this a massive avenue which has been completely ignored and I don’t see why (ethics aside) 3a hsd supplements for the scalp could not be created to “neutralize” dht as soon as they interact (as they do in the muscles).

klijom4 6:55
Also that thread, is more than ten years old and I tried googling 3a hsd to find only 2 or 3 semi-serious discussions of it regarding hairloss. 3a hsd is a natural enzyme present within the muscular structure of the body which prevents the conversion of testosterone to dht wherever it is present. Now to me it would seem that introducing an enzyme to the scalp (3a hsd) should in theory…

klijom4 4/16/2016 6:52
@bigt1 I think he does have a point though. Why try and fight alpha 5ar when you have a natural mechanism in your body designed to do just that? It shocks me how poorly this issue has been (or not been) covered.

bigt1 4:49

@Ihavethecure this where your getting your info from?

@Ihavethecure 4/16/2016 2:54
hair loss is being researched by monumental retards who are taking all your money.

Ihavethecure 21:54
article linking 3a-hsd with the long heralded pgd2 cure branded about by cotsarelis.

Ihavethecure 21:53

Ihavethecure 21:44
It’s way easier (and safer) to augment 3a-hsd levels rather than inhibiting 5alpha reductase levels.

Ihavethecure 21:35
SSRIs fluoxetine, fluvoxamine, sertraline, and paroxetine, the SNRI venlafaxine, and mirtazapine. All current treatments used as anti depressants to increase 3a-hsd levels

Ihavethecure 21:29
Anyways, that’s your cure, go spread the word, took my a*s long enough to find it. I don’t know how to produce a treatment to administer the appropriate therapy but if testosterone therapy can overcome 5-alpha reductase deficiency then the exact mechanisms with a different drug make up would provide adequate doses of 3a-hsd to the scalp.

Ihavethecure 21:25
All the pharmaceuticals know about 3a-HSD and the natural DHT eliminating property that it has. But then again, replicating an enzyme is something only the very top pharmaceuticals can do and they wouldn’t want to lose such a steady stream of revenue lol.

242 thoughts on “Increasing 3-Alpha-Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase to Treat Hair Loss?”

  1. Okay, so I’m going to try to keep this short. Especially because Rev may have beat me to it but really… I think this would be a relatively safe and easy home test for a person who is a clever pharmacist.

    My questions may be solved by Broccoli seed oil but from the short/ quick research I have done would make it seem that the florets/ sprouts have more nutrients than the seeds, so using the seed oil may not be the answer (again, I’m not a biologist nor chemist so someone in that field would know much better).

    So I immediately starting looking for a topical that was created for sulforaphane which I’m sure most of us will do and found that there are a few studies that tried to create a topical specifically derived for skin cancer treatments and as a sunblock.

    Beyond that I found this amazing article on pubMed:
    The full article breaks down the stability of sulforaphane for topical formulation. This is where a clever pharmacist would come in. My guess is someone with the right training would be able to create a topical with relatively ease with that information and know how to make it last.

    Again I’m no scientist and wouldn’t have the slightest idea how to do this but it seems relatively straightforward and safe based on my degenerate understanding of the chemistry involved.

    One last thing. And I think this is complete hearsay but I read that the ingredient we are looking for is “sulforaphane glucosinolate” or SGS. The following link has nothing else listed than that for the ingredients and is relatively cheap, at least for a test but really I’m not sure how much you would need:
    1.6 grams @ $19

    My final thoughts. Considering that tests have been done with a topical cream, especially for sunblock – if any bald guy was involved with the study you would have to assume that it would be slapped on the scalp… and… you think it might have been noticed if some hair started to pop up.

    One last question: Did the topical propecia results get released? I never really followed it. If they did and the results weren’t great, I am going to remain a little skeptical because it would seem that this would do the same thing (eliminate/ reduce DHT).


  2. How can I get in contact with “Roman.” I think there is a missing part that aloso needs to be explained and I believe that is the key and important factor in how all this stuff works. It is about underskin tissue called Galea.

  3. Hey,
    So I woke up with this thought this morning:

    Using Broccoli extract seems great and all but I think it would have a similar challenge to Saw Palmetto. Both of them are are natural organics and while they may do the job that they claim to say (broccoli with 3a hsd and saw palmetto with DHT), I would think they would do it at a rate that is somewhat subdued. I say this because Broccoli and Saw Palmetto are not specifically designed to go after 3a hsd or DHT, it is just a secondary effect.

    What we need from them is a hyper concentrate I believe and not just an extract and even at that we might need to apply a ridiculous amount to achieve the desired effect. While my guess would be that there is some other compound/ drug that would do this much more aggressively (hence finasteride for saw palmetto).

    Either way, it might be worth a couple $100 to test out some of the ointments/ extracts that people are posting for 6 – 8 months to see if it helps. I would try this but living in Mexico means that anything I get shipped to me takes 3 months to get here and sometimes it doesn’t come at all.

    I will note that if you try it there is this note on one of the links which might be an issue for most. It refers why it includes lavender essential oil in the contents: It is one of the most versatile essential oils and helps to mask the slight “sulfur” smell of the sulforaphane. Lol You might want to invest in a good cologne.


  4. I think a lot of us are missing an increasing amount of progenitor cells or these progenitor cells are blocked in that kind of way that, at the end of the process chain, they ultimately are not triggering normal hair growth anymore.

    Increasing levels of DHT, alpha5reductase and/ or too low levels of 3a-HSD in the scalp might trigger the onset of hair loss, so the hair growth blockage might be taken away if you are able to increase levels of 3a-HSD.

    However, if we all have lost progenitor cells and we are not able to keep the amount of progenitor cells stable in the future, pumping up 3a-HSD in your scalp will probably not prevent you from balding in that case.

    We are dealing here with too early cell death, most of us need new supply of progenitor cells ( from Embryonic stem cells).

    In the Netherlands, scientists have grown beef hamburgers in labs a few years ago (check the internet). The research was partially subsidized by Sergey Brin ( formerly Google ). They prepared the burgers live in London and ate them. They only lacked the juicy taste, so they now try to grow/implememt more fat cells instead of only muscle cells.

    Most important is that, among others, they used Embryonic stem cells. They state that in a period of 2 months, they are able to grow 50.000 kilograms of pork with only 10 of these Embryonic stem cells within the lab / production facility!

    Well hey, if you can create that with Embryonic stem cells, you can produce and eat that meat without causing cancer … Than you can create progenitor cells that are needed for hair growth as well!

    1. Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t that along the line of what Replicel is doing?

      50,0000 tons is a ridiculous amount of pork by the way… what did they do with it all?

      1. Yeah I think that might be ( sort of ) the path Replicel is following, although we are hoping that they don’t forget to use HUMAN stem cells! Otherwise we will get fur like cows ghagha!

        The meat masters are aiming at replacing a large proportion of the bio industry which produces a lot of pollution. And they want to develop new food for those continents ( especially Africa ) where the climate is not as ideal as ours in Europe or The States. Well, I don’t know what to think about all of that honoustly …

        I have never seen a person from that proportion in my life. Holy cow!

    2. Sorry, 50.000 TONS ( not kilograms) of pork, within 2 months !!!

      What about 50.000 follicles within 2 months for us?!

  5. Sorry guys but this is retarded. It’s been ten years since this came out, I’m sure it has been tried and doesn’t work. Just eat broccoli everyday and see what happens. All these chemicals, oils pills etc and we still go bald. It’s gotten to the point where it’s just confusing lol. It’s actually freaking exhausting especially when you don’t see results. Naturals don’t work, it’s not strong enough. We need pharmaceutical drugs and stem cell activation or wounding with chemical signaling compounds or just JAK. Adding broccoli oil and creams and leaving it in your head all day is not an option. You will look like an idiot walking down the street.

    1. I don’t think anyone has tried to introduce 3a-HSD enzymes to the scalp yet, that is not the same as eating broccoli..

      1. True, but what are the chances it would work. We need to be more realistic. Whoever figured this out 10 yrs ago most likely developed a topical for it and it didn’t work. It’s been 10 yrs lol, doubt it has much potential. Follica is where it’s at!

  6. Why don’t we start a kickstarted/crowdfunder for this? It would be a damn sight quicker than waiting for the pharmaceutical industry going through trials and getting FDA approval etc.

    It’s obvious that the pharmaceutical industry won’t research this as if it’s successful they won’t be able to patent, as the ingredient is abundantly available to all already.

  7. Recent news from Histogen about their skin rejuvenation product. Don’t forget that the basic components and starting procedures used to make this product are also the same as those for their Hair Stimulating Complex. Further in the production cycle the procedures of course differentiate from each other to come to different products.

    By the way, the guy that did not have a lot of HSC regrowth ( that picture Breezy posted) not only had MPB/AGA he also had scar tissue and burn tissue on his scalp due to a car accident. The black lady who did have minor improvement as well had damaged her hair/ scalp with a curling/straightner tool. Gail told that in the interview with Spencer Kobren.

    1. Nice excuses. Why doesn’t she try using hsc on a non damaged scalp. Someone who is like us with mpb. No tissue damage, burns, etc. Why can’t she just do that for hsc which us supposedly marketed for mpb. Too many excuses and bs with this company. I once had huge hope for this treatment but now it really looks shady. I hope I’m wrong.

  8. Okay, so firstly hi I am Roman and this is what I have discovered.

    3a alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3a hsd) is an enzyme found all over the body where its primary purpose is to “deactivate” DHT into a weaker derivative of testosterone “androstanediol”. Now what I have discovered is that dht is zero effect on your muscles or any muscular gain due to the presence of 3a hsd in the musculoskeletal structure ( Now anyone after reading such a simple article would be inclined to research the topic further and it seems body builders seem to be more worried about losing effects of dht on the msucles than people are worried about losing hair! (there is way more forum coverage of 3a hsd in bodybuilding forums and the dht converting effect it has).

    Now moving on to what my beliefs regarding a treatment are (and this is where the real meatheads come out to blast sulforaphane for no reason)… At no point did I suggest sulforaphane was the cure for our situation. All I said was that it exhibits 3a hsd boosting signals. Now moving on from that, it may not even be the most potent 3a hsd booster. All I said was that it has dht inhibiting 3a hsd boosting effects which have been proven by its beneficial effects for prostate cancer patients and in inflammation cases. So all of you “well my dermatologist says this that and whatever else and I dont want to rub onion oil into my head” pessimists can go back to your rogaine or whatever, I am not talking to you.

    Regarding the avenue that needs to be taken in the future, I believe we first have to identify whether there is sufficient type 3 3a hsd present in the scalp that boosting it will be enough to locally deactivate all dht in the scalp; but if not, whether or not there is a method of introducing 3a hsd enzymes or culturing them within the scalp.

    The benefits of such a treatment are countless,firstly you have to realise DHT deactivation goes on in your body all the time through 3a hsd, YOU JUST DON’T KNOW IT. Secondly, if we can harness 3a hsd in the scalp then it will just be a local deactivation of dht (like in the muscles) and the body will not lose out on any of the androgenic benefits throughout the rest of your body.

    I have dumbed down this explanation as far as I can but for those who are a little bit more scientifically inclined 3a hsd is in a group of aldo/keto reducatase enzymes found in the AKR1C2 gene, increased expression of which is considered significantly beneficial in preventing prostate cancer (route from which propecia was born) and cases of inflammation cases (links can be made to minoxidil).

    This is all I have to say for now as I believe this is enough to spark conversation but I think the main point to take is that dont let the meatheads in the comment convince you sulforaphane was the main point of my argument, they are bald and probably deserve to be so. I encourage you to research this matter as only through increased discussion can we obtain sufficient research material to be able to truly determine whether or not this is a genuine cure. I believe that since is happening all over our body already and DHT inhibition has already been shown to prevent hairloss, then only inhibiting dht in the areas that actually need less of it through introducing an enzyme so active in our own body is a better way of fighting hairloss than inhibiting 5ar all over the body, which can result in several undesired/ serious side effects.



  9. Roman can you tell us what we can use topically to reduce or increase this 3hsd, or whatever it’s called. Our goal is to decrease it right? If there is nothing we can use, then this is kind of trial and error which like other things won’t work. I’ve been using coconut oil, rosemary, peppermint, emu, and none of it does anything.

      1. @mjones the goal is to increase 3a had IF there is enough present in the scalp. If not then to introduce 3a hsd to the scalp. I don’t know whether it will work for slick bald heads but I know 100% that if it can be done it will eradicate balding similar to polio shots or any vaccinations.

        1. I.e. It would make existing Hairs 100% immune to baldness. I’m currently researching whether there are 3a hsd concentrations in the hair on the back and side of our heads (the hair immune to hair loss) and if any link is found between that hair and 3a hsd then I can a million percent say that this the easiest and most secure way of ending baldness. If there isn’t any 3a hsd present in the donor hairs then it’s still early viable as a local enzyme to introduce to the scalp to locally neutralise all dht.


          1. Not being funny, but why don’t you start a kickstarter or gofundme campaign. You could get moving on getting the data you need to start running trials, even with the community online in these forums, people would be willing to oblige in both donations and trialling as people are so desperate for a cure now.

  10. Hi mjones… I wanted to ask you again how long fin worked for you? I wasn’t sure if you said 7 years or 12 years. And what norwood did you maintain?

    1. Hi Torin, Propecia worked for 1 years before I started losing ground. I still believe this protein isolate whey shake I took screwed up my balanced state of dht and kicked me off my steady balance with Propecia. If I hadn’t touched that cap my hair would be in great shape. I maintained a nw1.5 the whole time with very minor loss throughout the years. Now I am a nw2, diffuse with thinning on temples and crown. Propecia still works or else I would be bald by now but it’s just slowing the loss not halting it like it did for the first 12 years. Get on Propecia if you are losing hair. Don’t wait and lose ground because you will regret it.

  11. I’m meeting a medical professor in a couple of weeks to discuss the logistics of this whole idea and whether or not this idea is viable, will update you all on how it goes.

    With regards to the gofundme requests, both here and in my emails, I am not a medical expert nor a scientist therefore I would never take anyone’s money before I have appropriate scientific back up both knowledge wise and personnel wise. I have just extremely deeply educated myself on this matter and will continue to do so until I bring this research to a conclusion.



  12. Roman I appreciate your enthusiasm in this but I think this would have been discovered by researchers long ago. Especially by cots and Christiano. Keep at it and prove me wrong but at the moment this is a long shot as way way way off for commercial release. Let’s just hope hsc presentation tomorrow proves us all wrong about scams, and she shows us awesome results for mpb. Release this year.

  13. Thinning since 25 (never realized it), but 3 years ago I still had 40% of the original density in the crown, now after those 3 years I only have 10% left, which equals no coverage.

    1 year saw palmetto, side effects, no regrowth.
    1 year lasercomb, only fit arms, useless crap.
    1 year Rogaine, hippo fat would have had the same result.
    Now I go for 1 year topical dht blocker and Rogaine (always used Keto shampoo).

    I already feel that my scalp can’t stand the propylene glycol in the dht blocker. That’s why I chose rogaine in the first place, but some manufacturers keep using propylene glycol.

    If this does not work, and no company releases in 2017, I have nothing to fight with anymore, except hair transplants. How much of them will I need to ever create decent coverage with fine blonde/grey hair. Like 10 sessions of €10.000 each?!

    I’d rather buy such thing religious Jewish men wear on their head (don’t know what it’s called in English) because that’s much cheaper. Buy a new and larger one each year to cover the ever growing bald crown, great.

    Bad genes cost a lot of money …

  14. You may want to update some things:

    1. the israel team is from a uni called technion (it’s not the company name). This is a student team (and a class project, essentially). Unfortunately, I don’t think they are pursuing it as I haven’t heard anything about it.

    2. This is not like saw palmetto, which stops the production of DHT. This breaks down DHT.

    3. I have been taking broccoli extract for awhile, but no luck.

    4. It may be worth seeing if desmond (or other chemist) can suggest a mix of broccoli extract + versapro (cream or gel). This would be cheap and easy.

  15. so many people just hanging on, myself included
    we can’t wait for trials and fda and red tape crap
    i’m not a scientist so i can’t but if this really can help us
    please, someone who has the knowledge take the bull
    by the horns and get something done.

  16. The other guy you may want to talk to at bald truth forum is , bej , he is a molecular biologist and seems to be pretty knowledgeable about making these kinds of things.

  17. What if we all as a group did a gofundme and doing so we found a cure for baldness. We could agree to share the profit and turn a curse to a blessing.

  18. Haha this is getting really sad. It’s better we just stay quiet on this forum than talking about putting broccoli lotion on our heads. It’s getting ridiculous. I’m curious on what histogen will present today. Let’s focus on that. At least that scam has before and after pics and trial data lol

  19. But in the video presentation of kelopesia there is an 11 days after pic which is very interesting and the guy isn’t young…

  20. lol well said mjones…
    hlscc Dr. Sahin told me they are doing legal processing with the Turkish government and should be at market in the next month

  21. Roman I support you. It’s rare to find someone pro-active, inquisitive, and experimental that actually understands the science. The rest of us are uneducated obstinate and god bitten left to fend off parasitic snake oil salesmen that can’t find a better job. That being said I wouldn’t let anyone’s skepticism remotely effect you. I respect admin’s skepticism as well as yours, wish u the best on fundraising

  22. Do you know what makes me sad ? Its 2016 and we are saying broccoli is a treatment. Mark my word roman will disappear when he realize that his method did not work, same as swiss temple, fgf11……. If cots, cristiano, lauster… Needed decate to figure out something, somebody comes from no where and say broccoli is a treatment?!! Am not against anyone but it does not make sense to me !

  23. When is histogen speaking today? Any way we can get a hold of the presentation?

    Roman I am not trying to be an ass it’s just the time you crowd fund, research etc it will take forever. It’s great you are looking at other avenues but let’s face it this won’t lead to a market treatment. It’s been discussed ten years now. Let’s hope histogen has something good to present.

    Egghead, where did you hear about kelopesia, releasing next month? How was the regrowth in that solution ? Rogaine level or better?

    1. Even if you have very low levels of DHT, your genetically sensitive follicles will respond to it by going dormant.

    2. I’ve even read somewhere going to the gym and using weights will only increase DHT in your scalp/muscles. Where’s aerobic exercise will help decrease the levels of DHT.

      It might have been on a bodybuilding forum. In any case, exercise is good for you so you should do it… but slapping x supplements on your head everyday is going to turn you into a paranoid fiend.

      Anyway, summer is coming. Long hair isn’t great for me in summer, so i might go for the shave in the next month or two. Besides gets in the way alot..


  24. Hlscc, I think there is a theory out there that it is not necessarily the amount of DHT that you have but your DHT to T ratio. I think this could account for some of the sides that people get on Propecia. If you already have average to low DHT, and start taking Propecia, it can cause side-effects. Some of us are balding at a slow rate due predominately to other genetic factors, WNT, PGD2.

  25. Histogen:
    April 25-27, 2016
    Dr. Gail Naughton to present ” Proteins Secreted by Hypoxia Induced Multipotent Stem Cells Stimulate Hair Growth in Men and Women”

    Could be today, tomorrow or Wednesday. Fingers crossed they have some exciting news or they can strike their name from the potential treatments. Either way, it’s helping eliminate our options.

    1. It’s on Wednesday around 2:30 she will be presenting.. She is under the category “Product Development and Commercialization” So we might get a launch in Japan or maybe a phase lll clinical trial in US or Mexico. That is what I’m expecting don’t take my word on the announcements

    1. Women have pretty good results with PRP it seems, are there any men on this blog which had great regrowth with PRP?

      Please let me know!

  26. @ mjones
    Egghead, where did you hear about kelopesia, releasing next month? How was the regrowth in that solution ? Rogaine level or better?”

    I emailed Kelopesia’s Dr. Sahin (the old turkish man scientist) about kelopecia and whether i would have to get a perscription and when it would come out. He emailed me back personally and told me it would be another month or so to get through Turkish gov approval etc and it would be available then OTC without need for international perscription etc

    1. Turkish member on Follcle Thought said it will Be released in May.. It will be a cosmetic product no prescription needed. I’ve got some Turkish pharmacies bookmarked once product comes out I’m going to see I can purchase it and try it myself.. If all goes well and I am able to get it I will update everyone on how it goes

  27. I’m going to email him back on May 25th to ask him where they are at in market release. I do believe that histogen is better than minoxidil and I’m not a huge fan of histogen which should tell you what I think about minox.

    That being said I think Kelopesia is going to be better than both minox and histogen..

    Mjones u say your wounding with minox and you like follica? scroll down to figure 6 and 7;year=2013;volume=5;issue=1;spage=6;epage=11;aulast=Dhurat
    this is a .gov study that they were referencing there is your visual proof. my only problem is i hate minox, i think kelo is going to be my subsitute

    1. Nice find Paul! The study looks promising.
      I’m interested in seeing the full results. Knowing that it inhibits dht 70% is good but what are the real results in terms of hair?

      ps. What is the “pill once a week” in this study?

    1. Figure 6 looks juice.

      I’m too exhausted to read this right now but anyone know how the protocol works? Is this microneedle and minox everyday.

      I’m personally looking for a treatment that I have to do no more than once a week and that would be a pain if it was microneedling once a week. Also, not a big fan of minox either but if it is working… shiet.


  28. BTW.. I red all about dermarolling.. I don’t think the usual dermoroller is good. I read about the derminator on SwissTemples blog(yeah clearly his protocol didn’t work) but the derminator made sense to me. Cleaner skin punctures and faster healing

  29. I stopped derma rolling with minox. The right side of my scalp where I was doing this had thinned out more. F it. I’m just applying it normally now. Minox worked for 3 months and now all it does is thin out my hair where ever I apply it. Scared to stop it due to shedding. Why couldn’t we just lose body hair instead of scalp hair. It would be better to lose the sides of head hair instead of the top. Top of head hair makes our face. Amy who histogen better have some good shit and kelopecia better be effective. We need something new ASAP.

  30. Hey Guys,
    How are we going to get the Histogen info? Do we have an insider? Or do they typically release their presenations via youtube or something like that?

  31. It’s almost sad to see people taking my opinion as being that broccoli is my proposed cure for baldness. All I stated was that a compound found in broccoli has boosting effects on 3a hsd; similarly to how aphrodisiacs raise sexual drive/ desire. At no point am I proposing sulforaphane as the answer, I am just stating the obvious (which has been backed up in studies) that it has anti inflammatory and 3a hsd inducing (hence dht inhibiting) qualities; however small that may be. In short BROCCOLI IS NOT MY ANSWER TO ANYTHING…. and if anyone seriously comments that after this you need lessons in literacy and comprehension long before you begin to understand any of the mechanics behind Androgenetic Alopecia.

    1. Thanks a lot for all your comments Roman! I have been dealing with a few of the crazies for 3 years and try to ignore them. I also mentioned broccoli in the post and that probably did not help:-(

    2. Glad you said something, Roman. Like most things, skeptics try to latch on to one little thing in order to undermine. I wasn’t sure how some came to the conclusion that broccoli supplementation was being advocated. I don’t think opponents read the post. They just looked at the comments others were leaving, and started echoing them. Sad stuff.

    3. Roman,

      Do you think there is any relation between scalp hairloss ( the known pattern ) and the abscence of muscles exactly in that same area of the scalp?
      As far as I can see the galea does not consist of any muscle, or am I wrong … and the galea ‘covers’ the known MPB area on top.

      No muscles could mean insignificant levels of 3a HSD, and therefore no DHT inhibition. However, the Frontalis Muscle ( forehead ) goes way up, it ‘ covers’ our both temples entirely, so that should mean DHT inhibition should take place at the temples as it does in other body parts with muscle tissue. However most hairloss sufferers start recesinf in the front.

      I hope you want to answer that.

      1. Hi netshed,

        This is an excellent point you make and one that definitely deserves further research on my part. If as said muscles do contain high cconcentrations of 3a hsd then hair should not be lost on top of those muscles. Conversely, you have to consider that muscle tissue is deeper inside the skin than hair follicles are so the effects of 3a hsd may be “all used up” so to speak on preventing androgenic effects on the muscles.

        I just wanted to ask if you were 100% sure that the frontalis muscle does reach the temples?

        1. Hi Roman,

          I’m not completely sure about the Frontalis, the degree of ‘coverage’ of the temples by the Frontalis might depend on someones scalp shape, forehead shape.

          Not here to promote something, but I sometimes use the 3D app VisAnatomy, for me its a good reference point when it comes to the basic Anatomy. I checked the muscle section, and there I saw that there are indeed no mucles, not even in the deep tissue, on top of the head where the galea is.

          For those who truely have bad luck with their hairgenes, the final NW7 horseshoe pattern line seems to follow the line between the muscle-less area and the muscle-area of our scalp … the only donor area that is left is really a very small strip just above the neck ( Occupitalis ).

          However, this is probably how far my knowledge goes to be honest.

    1. Thorn medical is a big scam here ty were still trying to understand broccoli is not Romans underlying assertion here

  32. Hi Roman, you might be able to answer this question for me since you seem to know a lot about dht. I’ve been on Propecia for over 14 years. It lost its effect the past three years now and I have been losing ground. Do you think topical Propecia might kick start the effectiveness again since it’s going directly to the scalp?
    Sorry for the broccoli thing. It’s just you hear all these random treatments with naturals and it’s gotten to the point where I can only laugh at it. I do respect the fact you are looking into other avenues to fight hair loss which is more than many of us can do on here. Fingers crossed you solve another angle to hairloss.

  33. I wonder is Shiseido will tinker with the Replicel protocol and add to it with their own technology.

    Replicel alone I don’t trust very much. But surely Shiseido will want to provide an effective treatment and on top of that they have their own renowned doctors working for them.

  34. @ mjones – not to give guy false hope or anything but I have a buddy who started fin about 4 years before me and he was taking fin orally. Had damn good regrowth, but started working out alot and took roids which made him lose all his ground. He ended up taking a break from fin and stopped lifting. After that he started fin again with no results. He switched to DUT orally and said he noticed thickening but no slowing of loss. Eventually he decided to crush his remaining fin tabs into minox 5% for about a year and you could barely tell he is balding now. Idk if its the minox or fin tho…

    1. Hey rancid that is very interesting. I started losing ground when I started lifting heavy and taking protein isolate. Within six months my hair started going downhill. I stopped lifting heavy and stopped taking protein isolate but the damage was done and the effects of Propecia started to fail. I went on Rogaine foam Nov 2014 till now. Got some thickening on top and crown but temples receded quickly, now thinning all over. How does he crush the pills to make it disolve in Rogaine foam? Wouldn’t the pills just crumble up and fall off your scalp. You can’t liquify pills into Rogaine. How badly was he balding? What nw level was he before adding Propecia Rogaine mix?

  35. Haha he didnt use rogaine foam. Its the generic version – a liquid form called Kirklands minox. Still 5% minox but actually cheaper. People just dislike it (myself included) because it doesnt dissapate on the scalp as quickly. Can be a pain with longer hair. But he crushed them up with something into a very fine powder and mixed them in with the minox. Ill have to ask him how many pills per bottle of minox tho and if each pill was 1mg or 5mg. Ill let you know. And he was probably right on the edge of a NW3 with receded temples. Now hes probably a thick 2.5. Used to be clearly balding, now he just looks like he has a higher forehead. I was a little angry I never got the results he did with fin. I got sides bad with fin tho and he used to tell me he had the same sides with topical as oral. I never tried topical for that reason. And I hate minox.

    1. Do you know how long he used minox before he added the crushed fin to it? Or did he just start of mixing the two together?

      1. Hey, mjones. I’m sorry I used to criticize you so much. With every passing day, I also grow less and less optimistic about the prospects of a cure in the somewhat near future. I’m an undergrad bio major at a top university in Boston, and none of my peers think it’s feasible for a cure to be released even in the next twenty years. Research is great, but unfortunately it will be relevant to very little people on this website as effective treatments/a cure is years if not decades away. It sucks

  36. He started rogaine when he started DUT. He added the tabs into his minox about 6-8 months into dut/minox. I talked to him last night and apparently he got the idea from something called promox which is a fin/minox/progesterone mix but I never heard of it. He put 1mg pill per 1ml of minox. So 30ml bottle of minox takes 30 fin tabs, or 6, 5mg proscar which is what he used. I think minox comes in 60ml bottles tho so thats alot of fin tabs in one bottle if you use 1mg pills.

  37. @ Crispswan- I hear ya bud. I used to get excited when anything new came out. Now its just depressing looking at how far we are reaching out because we just dont have a clue. I really thought we would have SOMETHING new out in the next year or two that would at least regrow a decent percentage and hold us off until there IS a cure. Nope.

  38. can you look into this admin?

    Old TBT thread:

    I have been trying to get more info on this, but I kept hitting a dead end. Then I found this:

    1. I came across a derm in SF’s yelp page:

    2. There is a review (negative) that somebody got an injection of “kenalog”,

    3. WTF is kenalog? “Kenalog 10 Injection (triamcinolone acetonide)”…. this is what OP mentions on TBT thread. Okay, we’re getting somewhere

    4. but doesn’t seem to include the progesterone piece mentioned by OP? O well…

    5. After looking up kenalog, I found the following. Interestingly, there are a handfull of very positive kenalog for baldness reviews:

    It seems like this is available now. Anybody willing to take a visit to the derm to try it out?

    1. Do the triamcinolone acetonide works for AGA or for AA ? From, every review points out to the AA, not AGA.

  39. Hair loss indutry know that there is a HUGE demand for a new treatment. They have to release a product as soon as possible! The first product wins. What we have now doesn’t work everybody knows that, WE NEED A NEW TREATMENT NOW. IS AWESOME….

  40. I made a comment here before about the fund raising and find some interesting g people to start crafting a good fin dut or propia substitutes but somebody said that: no way I’m gonna be guinea pig for that”
    … well I understand…but by the looks of where this is all going… We will never have a cure! It’s just to expensive for all those companies selling out snake oil and hair transplant… come on guys…They can make blind people to see nowadays. Clones and s**** and you are saying that you can’t grow hair??? (All due respect for all other treatments they have found! Fair play!!!)And I’m getting sick of these statements of the “we need to have it approved by FDA bladibla..??!?!? So it’s better to approve the all the other thousand of addictive medications on the market and the fake snake oils we all purchased and which the doctors gladly hook you up on a single and inexpensive 60usd consultation?
    If everybody would stop paying for minoxidil finasteride or propecia you would definitely see another product on the shelves with better results…
    But seriously. Roman, great approach. Hope you find what u looking for and help all of us not going bald !!

  41. A cure won’t come for years, my dermatologist told me within 20yrs we will be able to clone hairs and he is involved in a lot of research. Now a better treatment than Rogaine and Propecia will definitely happen in the next couple years. It’s a big market to release a better treatment. All of this is of course my hypothesis and I can be totally wrong. But being in the game since 2001 and sering hair cloning dates being postponed over and over again it’s only safe to say it won’t happen anytime soon. Sisheido seems to be not starting their phase 2 trials yet and tsuji will start in 2020. However I am excited about follicum, follica, SM, jak and even histogen. One of these will be released and should offer us better treatments. I still do believe their is a conspiracy theory behind it though because science is very advanced. I mean look at Jimmy carter, he had like stage 4 cancer all over his body at 92 yrs old, six months later he is cured. If it were anyone else they would have died. Supposedly he was given a immune boosting serum that killed off his cancer cells. I still think they have a cure for hair loss and it’s probably something very simple. Whatever happened to that laser that grew back hair. It was all over the forums a year ago. Not hair max or theradone, but a laser similar to laser hair removal tool that was used for baldness and it worked very well. They stopped talking about it. I bet it worked really well and they shelfed it lol. HT business will do anything they can to block a cure.

    1. You mean Hairegen Classic from Israel?
      Some did see results but not sure now. It’s only sold in Israel so you won’t be able to get it anyway.

  42. Cripswan and mjones, why do you say no cure for another 20 years? Just curious, is that just speculation or do you have particular reasons? I doubt it will be that long. Hair loss science has been advancing rapidly over the last decade and with Alopecia Areata potentially being functionally cured with JAK inhibitors there’s no way Androgenic is 20 years behind. I understand they are not completely related but it is still a hair loss disorder that science has now solved. It might take another few years but I don’t think we are that far away.

  43. Mman, I agree with what you say but I heard this from my dermatologist and he said within 20 yrs they will be able to grow hair in labs. The dermatologist at upenn told me a stem cell treatment will be available in 5 years and that was 2 years ago when she told me this. She also said it won’t be a cure and laughed when I said the word cure. She works with cotsarelis

    1. I don’t get it though because Cotsarelis is meant to be working on hair neogenesis through wounding. So how could it not be permanent new hair? That derm should not be laughing, Cotsarelis has been working on finding a cure for some 26 years now!

  44. If they can develop a treatment that can bring us back to a solid nw2, that you have to take everyday I consider that a cure. Don’t expect a one stop shop cure anytime soon. No money in that. Everything is ruled by money not what makes us happy

  45. But who knows we could finally catch a break with a random treatment this year that could bring us back our hair. I pray for that all the time :)

  46. hey crisp – so I was googling CGVEGF FGF and IGF1 and adensoine (something you brought up a month ago). I found a malaysian website that looks a little shabby with alleged b/a pic
    regarding cgveg/fgf/igf1)

    i found igf-1 topical easily, topical cgvegf from some company called fusionmeso, not 100% sure but Evolis is related with FGF5, I’m still looking for Adenosine but all i can find is Adenogen product by Shiseido. –I don’t know how to reverse engineer this skinmedic b/a pic, but i would love to experiment

    My question since your bio major ‘ FGF1, FGF2, FGF5, FGF7, and FGF10 have all been quoted aroudn AGA why? and how do you approach solving that?

  47. apologies i forgot to quote and now lost the link, adenosine helps boost fgf1 IGF1 and cgvegf can’t find the article now. anyways i’d like to hear your thoughts, I know follicept failed but it’s still interesting to see the studies surrounding IGF1 dht, etc

  48. Roman your obviously above all of us in here, this might be a dumb idea i dunno just trying to help. but maybe you should contact Follicept about 3a hsd ? since they have those patented patches etc. ur thoughts?

  49. I actually found something very interesting and this guy got results with everything natural. The problem is he’s not telling how he did it

    – before:

    – after 1 month:

    – after 4 months:

    – after 5 months:

    He does come up with an interesting theory which essentially tells us that chemicals will not give “permanent” results. I’ll try to post that later.

      1. He’s a member of immortalhair but has disappeared long ago. Those pictures are from 2012. Because if this I am starting to believe there is indeed a conspiracy in the hair loss world.

    1. There are some really interesting natural compounds out there in my opinion. Especially used in conjunction with minox and propecia can give good results. I just don’t think people stick with the naturals for long enough to see a difference or perhaps their method of delivery isn’t making it into the dermis well enough.

    2. Hmm…
      I’m skeptical that it was all natural if he isn’t saying how he did it. Honestly what does he have to lose? Even if people disagree with his protocol… it obviously worked for him, whatever he did.

  50. mjones i am taking propecia and using nizoral shampoo, what other treatment can i add to my course do you suggest minoxidil ? Oleuropein (Olive Drupe)?Procyanidin B-2 (Extracted from Apples)?Peppermint Oil?Pumpkin Seed Oil?Epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG) from Green Tea?

  51. Fadi, add Maxi Hair Country life vitamins once a day. Throw in 1,000mg of lysine. Everything else is not needed. How long you been on Propecia? Are you taking 1mg?

    1. i have bean for 4 years this is the 5 years but i stopped for couple of months during these 4 years, i noticed slowing in baldness progress and decreased beard hair and body hair.

    2. If we are not able to find the new HSC presentation on the internet, it may be useful for those who are active on other fora as well, to contact Hellouser.

      He might be able to obtain the presentation from Gail as he already build up credit due to his interview with her in November.

      At least she knows from that moment on there is a large population of hair loss sufferers online interested in their field of regenerative science.

    1. Nope, he only said about using a combination of herbs infused in a mix of carrier oils to restore fatty tissues. It works well with his theories though.
      Essentially his theory is that DHT destroys BAT (Brown Adipose Tissues) or Adipose Fat on the scalp where the galea is located. These tissues are where the follicle grows. So to have hair grow again you need to block DHT and restore BAT at the same time. His treatment only costs 12 to 15 dollars. LOL.

      1. Nope, he only said about using a combination of herbs infused in a mix of carrier oils to restore fatty tissues. It works well with his theories though.
        Essentially his theory is that DHT destroys BAT (Brown Adipose Tissues) or Adipose Fat on the scalp where the galea is located. These tissues are where the follicle grows. So to have hair grow again you need to block DHT and restore BAT at the same time. His treatment only costs 12 to 15 dollars. LOL. BTW his username is Al123.

        1. it sounds like Hagerty mixed with Cots theory, I’m trying out that OGA thing you linked the other day – thanks for that too

      2. hey i responded 2 large items to you, i found what he was out what he was doing you can see all his post through imh forum post history.. we’ll have to wait til admin approves my comments to you later because there were links all over

  52. Found it Rev, that guy kept his regimen a secret “””to ‘sell to his friend’ “” this is what he said he did

    “- diets can accelerate or slow the process of hair loss. it will never cure baldness. no supplement/diet can re-grow a single hair follicle on the frontal region. ”

    “- unhealthy activities (masturbation) will only affect men vulnerable to MPB. accelerates hair loss.”

    “- before i had started my treatment, both factors above would increase the itching in my scalp. as i’d take my meal, itching would go intense (and double the hair loss). but as i achieved success during the treatment, simply nothing mattered to my hair anymore. stress, diet, unhealthy activities, zero adverse effects. as if i wasn’t prone to MPB any longer. just the way it is for people who’ll never go bald no matter what irregularity takes place inside them. it emphasizes the importance of genetics, again.” (his hair appears asian -his english is bad)

    “- the size of the head increases as MPB strikes. DHT is related to bone growth. i don’t know how true skull expansion theory is. even if we are to believe it, there seems to be no real method to reverse it.”

    -” the problem is not with our system. it’s the scalp site which is genetically predisposed. while we can’t do anything (so far) to alter our genes, we are only left with the option to fight the inflammation (or whatever) ‘topically’, the adverse reactions which are caused by genetic predisposition. i say countering inflammation, as it’s the end result”
    “- adipogenesis and angiogenesis are closely linked.”

    – before:

    – after 1 month:

    – after 4 months:

    – after 5 months:

    “-an infused oil given to me with the purpose of restoring fatty tissue health. costed me merely $12-15 per month.
    trials on family members begin next month.”
    —–what kind of oil?
    -a combination of herbs infused in a mix of carrier oils.”

    He absically say’s don’t masturbate, eat healthy, something about fat/herbs/oils and a link to Tom Hagerty scalp exercise and a Carrier Oils for Beginners book.

    No word from him since…
    —that’s the story with that guy.. if I was to guess I would say seeing that he’s talking about angiogenesis adipogenesis with a link to Hagerty’s website and adipose/fat. I would say 1. he is a scam and if he is not he is a big @%# hole for excluding info for money

    …according to him he’s not masturbating, scalp exercising, eating healthy, wounding hence the forum topic ” Re: injury/bald scalp/hair re-growth. explain.” possibly taking topical Gotu Kola, Genseng, Ginko, GrapeFruit, Saw Palmetto Rhodiola Ashwaganda with using some carrier oil (castor? emu) etc etc

    1. “Masturbation is unhealthy “. “Costed me”…guys, if someone claims you owe back taxes and you have to pay them via prepaid MasterCard, it’s a scam. Just thought I’d let you know since you seem very gullible and believe random things on the internet. Put all these oils and herbs on your head people will notice your greasy stinky head meters away.

  53. Rev, he had more post revealing a little more
    if you click on his post history his last log in was 2013
    and he’s not asian he is Pakistani – proof

    his last few post said something about Hypoxia


    “we should be talking about pgd-2, hypoxia inducers, progenitor cells, adipogenesis, then growth factors responsible for angiogenesis”

    it’s interesting to see this person was talking about DGLA in 2012… (way before we heard about it here from Brotzu)

    here he writes how about his “Carrier oils”

    equal proportions (250g each) of:

    olive oil: 20g Linoleic acid, 188g oleic acid, 40g saturated
    coconut oil: 7.5g linoleic acid, 15g oleic acid, 215g saturated
    sesame oil: 112.5g linoleic acid, 105g oleic, 32.5 saturated
    infusing 250g ground flax seeds: 54g alpha-linolenic acid
    and then some of my special herbs, few of the ingredients of which are quercetin and luteolin.

    the above maintains a 2.6:1 ratio of LA:ALA, which is supposed to be ‘ideal’. oleic acid will help with the penetration, and lauric acid in the saturated fats is known to be a better penetration enhancer. i could infuse safflower seeds for it’s LA and quercetin, but that has already been taken care of, unless an expert here points out why else safflower extract worked better than finasteride at inhibiting 5-ar. “”

    some other interesting post
    “ACV,(apple cider vinegar) it’s a potent anti-histamine. it causes a reduction in pgd-2 levels.” -Apr 29, 2012 7:29 am
    the yale study tells us that adipose tissues deplete as we go bald, is it safe to say that this is exactly how our blood flow is compromised?”

    anyway he seems to be into mostly adipose and inflammation.
    interesting find thanks

  54. Interesting egghead. Follica definitely has the right approach. All these half ass attempts like this natural guy has been showing effectiveness. Let’s see what histogen has to offer today

    1. ya histogen talks about hypoxia too kerastem adipose..

      man, it’s like every day i hear the same alluding words “adipose, DGLA, Wounding, hypoxia, PGD2/E2, progenitor cells, A5R, and VEGF” it’s somewhere in that pile of acronyms damn it! lol

    1. Gail Naughton is most likely a mouthpiece.PR is huge for biotech companies as we have seen time and time again. Often there will be someone who talks about/ represents the company for the media and then there are the actual scientists. I’m not knocking her scientific status at all because you need to have that when you are the PR person for these companies but I highly doubt that she is dipping her hands directly into any of the experiments on a regular basis.

      1. I take my comment back. Histogen only has 11 employees. She is probably more involved than I previously thought.

      1. They’ve used the same picture of the girls hairline with the black marker for 5 years, and when they used numbers, it was an increase in the count over their PiLOT study!!! From like 6% to 10% increase in hair count( but they throw out the big number saying 47% increase over POC trial!!!). …only picture since those originals was the one by the sketch surgeon who showed obe pic, and was pointed out he used manipulated or not his own photos on his site…I’m still optimistic though, that’s how desperately i want hair.

        1. The Histogen temple photo of a female was caused by tellogen effluvium, not androgenetic alopecia. Also, that other female example picture they use was caused by traction alopecia.

          Naughton says so herself.

          1. Yes, it is. I try to suppress my rational thought so I can dream of having hair in my prime boning age…

  55. Don’t know whether we have seen / posted this earlier.
    Presentation of the World Stem Cell Summit in December 2015.

    Histogen is in it as well. Have not checked it in details yet.

  56. I guess no word on the histogen prrsentstion. I like how SM had media coverage right away but histogen hasn’t been listed in any news article that I remember. Oh well, let’s see if we can find her prrsentstion on YouTube in the coming days.

  57. The Technion Team is not a team. It is just students and they are no longer working on that project. It was a class project basically. They never did anything other than hand in a paper for a business plan competition.

  58. i used to be optimistic about histogen but i didn’t know the company’s results have been around longer than 5 years… she does annual tours to investors every year like it’s a holiday

  59. i remmeber admin mentioning evolis/cellmid FGF5 study
    FGF5 only role in the body is to signal the hair cycle to transition

    I just learned something really profound about FGF5 – it activates bFGF via wound healing from heparan sulfate-degrading enzymes creating “angiogenesis”.

    Here is a b/a pic of a malaysian study upregulating VEGF bFGF and IGF1

    Histogen has VEGF in it, I vaguely remember Christiano talking about it….

    I’m wondering if Angiogenesis and adipogenesis would increase the health of the hypodermis? I think this is where Follicept failed in that IGF-1 was not addressing the CGVEGF/bFGF aspect aka angiogenesis aspect

  60. On her Facebook there’s a pic of Gail holding a parrot… don’t know why but it made me laugh. There’s got to be a good pun in there…

  61. Lol, if its a scam , its been a well researched scam . They have been working on it for what seems like forever.

  62. @Daniel, at some point we probably will have one of those treatments but imo there is no chance in hell that it will be within 2 yrs. I think the next big thing will be a refined topical Fin with less sides…

  63. If topical fin can restore what I lost from the past 4 years and maintain the growth then I will be happy with it. It has to be effective for those who lost effectiveness with oral fin.

    1. There presentation PowerPoint was similar to what was given in Miami. What I heard is 2017 Mexico is not happening now and it’s now pushed to 2018 and no matter what they still need at least one more additional trial in any country. US and Asia are Initial regions for development. I spoke with a histogen rep.

      I have the presentation PowerPoint, but it won’t post here

      1. Or better yet… use, send it to yourself. It will give you a link (in your email) that you can paste here. It will only be available for a certain amount of days but it is better than nothing.

  64. @susana, yes Polichem is currently their own topical Finasteride product which should be in phase 3 trial. I dont know when their trial ends….hopefully soon.
    Search for Polichem on this site! Admin already wrote some splendid posts on their upcoming product.

  65. Can i just say about Histogen..

    From their trials 73% improvement in 1 year compared to -15% from the control group. I don’t know about you guys, but i could do with that 73% improvement. Histogen + PRP(seems to do something for alot of people) and Topical Fin would help a diffuse loser like myself.

    1. Here’s the thing: (263-179)/179 DOES NOT equal 73% improvement in haircount!! They cant even get their numbers straight! That’s like 43%, so again, wtf is up with histogen?! Chronic manipulation of any results…

  66. We will have the possibility to see results from: Histogen + Tranpslante hair ? It would be awesome for higher norwoods.

  67. We’re screwed. It’s all just talk talk talk. Nothing new coming out. Release dates keeps getting pushed back. We are discussing things that MIGHT be released in 5-10 years, I mean it’s sad.. The hair loss industry is a shame

  68. Guys, just get prepped to look your best for when you shave your head. In the end, it will save money and a lot of stress. Someday, we will all be forty, and it won’t even matter.

    1. Agreed. I’m 32 and I have difficult time imagining it not mattering as long as I’m single and trying to stay competitive

      1. You aren’t going to look like you are 20 forever. You can still be good looking, even without a full head of hair. I see very few older men with a movie start head of hair. It’s all good brother. It isn’t optimal by any means, but there are so many men who have this problem, it is somewhat normal.

  69. Yes. All of you are right. Hair Loss industry is deplorable. Finasteride and Minoxidil don’t work at all and have terrorific side effects. What a shame.

  70. Histrogen will never release anything to treat hair loss. Imo its obvious that they dont have anything. Wake up people! If you have a product then you present CLEAR EVIDENCE that its working.
    Lets just focus on the companies whos actually trying to do things in a professional way.

  71. I agree with Spanky! Histogen doesn’t have a great working hair loss treatment. If they could actually grow back 47% of our hair back that is technically a freaking cure. If you have 50k hairs on top of your scalp instead of 100k you still have complete coverage. You wouldn’t be thick hair coverage but you wouldn’t be bald anymore. If Histogen showed pics of this on normal aga patients who didn’t have scar tissue, TE, or whatever she claimed her test subjects had then should have investors lined up at her door and this hsc product available already. She wouldn’t be keeping off trials each year. We need to forget about Histogen. Better of focusing on Kerastem instead. Either way it doesn’t matter because follica will be a better treatment anyways. Too many shady lies with Histogen.
    Paul Phoenix, just because Dr cole lowered his prices doesn’t mean something better is coming. It just means his work probably sucks or less people are getting HT because it doesn’t really give you a good hair coverage plus it’s bloody and looks like it hurts like crap.

  72. a lot of conferences, powerpoints and stuffs but no one company can say if their products work? i mean, okey, they show the data base and many things but they could speak clearly ” Guys our product works and we’ll release it in X time ” c’mon is not too difficult to speak clear.. always the same.. i try to be positive and optimist but f*ck sometime is hard when you’re alway hearing the same in every single event..

  73. @Cris and Mjones, well said guys. Its not pessimistic to view things this way, just plain out realistic. Not many of us who visits this blog knows much about the science behind hair loss or the treatments, but alot of these companies act like we’r complete morons ready to believe anything they stick in a powerpoint presentation. I so look forward to the day when a company presents clear images of a treatment that actually works. No macro photography, combovers, unclear images etc etc. Just an ordinary pic of a dude with buzz cut where you can see new hairs growing on whatever bald spot(s) he may have.


  75. Let them win and bring out better ht with regeneration and let merk bring out a better drug for hair loss that works when Propecia stops working. I’m cool with that.

  76. If it wasn’t for complaints about how screwed we are there wouldn’t be any comments on any hairloss forums

  77. Where are those two intellectuals crispy wan and curious now.. they were saying histogen is legit and their product is good… Why dont you comment to these people…

    1. Shut up dude. I never said Histogen is legit or anything. All I asked was that you temper your corny/perverted uncle jokes against the very same people that are trying to help you. You don’t know anything. You’re just an IT guy who just sits around complaining and sharing dirty/sad antecdotes about engaging in coitus with your “girlfriend” while being sad about the condition of your scalp. All that money that you claim your father has, and you can’t find a shrink in Australia, mate?

  78. @Farhan , Don’t get me wrong , im not trying to start an argument here, but, if its a scam why has it taken so long for their research and testing ? That surley has to cost them money .
    If it was a scam i would think they would just release it already , like all the other snake oils out there. If they think they can get more hair to grow by tinkering with the formulation more,then im all for it . I agree with you that some of the numbers and those pics dont help their cause but , if it didnt work ,wouldn’t they just drop it or ,market it with the other snake oils .

  79. you can buy everything inside of histogen over the counter except for follistatin which you can still buy it’s just more expensive… what am i misunderstanding

      1. according to Histogen The proteins within HSC, including KGF, VEGF, and follistatin,” are what it’s made up of 100% unless there are more in the patent registry.

        you can buy topical VEGF….. KGF=FGF7 (Adenosine/Adenogen/Adenovital etc)
        Follistatin is $500 on google through novateinbio
        …. I dont know how to do scalp injections but Adenosine and VEGF are topicals, so if you can figure out Follistatin … that’s pretty much the HSC treatment right there…

        Someone smart want to debunk that for me? Not really interested in doing it but interested in hearing why it wouldn’t work./

  80. Why ppl are so negative about histogen? The are New info? Nobody se this week peesentation…. So wth the disapointmen? For me is the only bio tech to show real improvwment and real and obtetive photos. And remember when they say 10 % of New hair is not the 10% of your original born hair. Is 10% more hair of you today hair. Life is short you dont have cancer… Lets hope Good News and be happy.

  81. type in Keratin in google
    Keratinocyte …KGF
    KGF is also known as FGF7
    its a growth factor present in the epithelialization-phase of wound healing.

    pretty sure it would be impossible to NOT get results.. given DHT/3aHSD PGD2 on mute…

  82. Guys instead of talking the same things over and over again we should do something about this issue… We need to hash tag aclaris therapeutics on Twitter and group tweet all at once asking for them what’s going on…. Same with other important people.. We need to start a revolution… Post about this issue every where online….

  83. @farhan, we are talking about the same things over and over again because the news and timeframes these companies are releasing are the same again and again. Your completely right mate, we all sound like broken records. This blog is gold @admin is doing one hell of a job, but ppl (myself included) cant help getting frustrated when none of these companies can produce actual results with pictures for us to look forward to and be happy about. But, as always im very much looking forward to admins next post, keeping fingers crossed for sudden good news:-)

  84. Histogen won’t work anyway so who cares when – if ever – it comes out.

    Let’s put our support behind Tsuji lab.

  85. You guys it’s all a conspiracy theory hahahaha. They don’t want to release anything better. Weak meds topicals, wigs and ht are going to be out only options. What gets me to believe their is a hidden agenda is the fact Christiano has a gold mine breakthrough with jak and she puts areata ahead of mpb. No offense to those who have areata, but mpb would be much more profitable to go after first in trials. It’s just weird she hasn’t even tested it yet for mpb. You guys don’t find that strange? I bet you she is being forced to not pursue it for mpb because it can cure it. The fda blocked a blood testing treatment that can detect cancer by analyzing your stem cells. I read this in the Washington post yesterday. Why would the fda block such a life saving early detection cancer treatment? It’s all business guys. It’s really sad. I don’t think we will ever have a cure but I still do believe they will release a treatment like kerastem or follica that will enhance coverage in conjuction with HTs. Bosley is here to stay fellas. Please be realistic. I have already accepted it. I will say this again, if you haven’t tried fin and you are losing ground, GET ON IT! Or else you will be screwed by the time a new treatment comes out in 3 to 5 yrs.

    1. So maybe we have to wait for Hair Loss Leaks …

      The time that someone important in the hair loss industry opens up about the treatments / cures that are being blocked by HT surgeons, the wig makers, the Fin/Minox industry and the FDA, just to ensure they keep their own job and yearly profits.

      If this were true, wouldn’t there be at least one wistleblower who told the media already that the balding community is getting fooled by its own government …

      Maybe it’s easier to start a worldwide petition against the abscence of effective hair loss solutions.

      Only charismatic leaders like Admin will acquire enough respect and therefore a lot of votes / momentum worldwide to make a political statement.

      I bet the media will cover it as soon as the number of votes explode, and when that happen, finally the Donald’s among us will hear it.

    2. Sorry but there is no way I’m trying finasteride or minoxodil, the risks just aren’t worth it to me and I know I’m not alone. I am rapidly losing hair every day and I would love to have a full head of hair again but I’m okay waiting for skin perturbation or a treatment that doesn’t affect my hormones. I guess everyone is different though and it’s a personal choice.

    1. Lol I tweeted him recently… To cure baldness… You guys should also tweet him.. To look into this matter

  86. What happened to that Italian doc.. He said they are going to release in few months.. Why would they say such things if they don’t want to…

    1. It’s probably snake oil farhan. If a real effective cure or treatment is in the works we will hear about on it MSNBC or on the Nightly News plain and simple. Curing baldness is like curing aids. The severity of the disease is different for sure but both are hard to cure and a real effective treatment will be all over the news. Italian lotions, Turkish foreskin hair topical and such are bs. The only hair loss treatments or people that ever made the night time news was christisno and cotsarellis. That’s it. Expect real treatments from them.

  87. mjones, honestly I’ve only made a few comments here before, but I just had to make this one. Please, for the love of God, shut up. I can’t stand that you constantly bring up your irrational conspiracy theories about the hair loss industry. You come to this site multiple times per day and shout insanity and absurdity. People then call you out on it, then you promise to stop. You then act like a happy-go-lucky optimistic guy for a few days, but alas you go back to your pessimistic, and frankly, annoying attitude. You’ll read this message and get mad and say you’re done with this site forever (when you really just keep visiting here without commenting). Then you’ll eventually comment again after a while, and the dreaded cycle continues. Now that I’ve ranted, just let me say that I love ya brother, but you gotta stop this. This isn’t healthy behavior, and you’re letting your hair loss drive you insane. I’ve been there before too, but let me tell you that life is so much better when you can focus your life and energy on more productive things. I seriously want you to be happy man, but coming here to this forum every few hours and screaming at the world isn’t gonna do it. So please, tone it down and stop with the madness.

    Everyone on this blog

  88. Dr. Tsuji shows a real passion and positivity for curing baldness. Watch this, the last few minutes sound really good and positive:

    Cotsarelis and Christiano are cynical, negative career researchers. Cotsarelis has been working in this field since 1990…. 1990! And he’s still giving the ‘maybe in
    10 years’ line. Ridiculous. Also his wounding theory with topicals follica thing sounds amateur-like and unambitious.

  89. Tsuji is going to take a minimum of 10 yrs starting at the year 2020 when he will conduct human trials lol. So that is roughly 14 yrs from now if he completed his trials successfully lol. I mean I get the point how you guys are enthusiastic about his work but what are you going to do in the mean time to hold on to your hair ? That’s 14 years from now we will all be living on Mars by then or fighting ww3 lol . We need to be more realistic on this site forum. The admin is doing a great job posting the latest treatments. Let’s focus on jak, cots and follicum, even SM it seems to halt hair loss and improve thickness and minor density. I would buy it

  90. I would like to know why Dr. Tsuji said they plan to start clinical human trials in 2020 and if that date could be brought sooner if they are ready to start before then. After all, his lab has already successfully grown human hair on mice (2012) an on artificial skin (2016).

    In any case, I hope the trials would then take 6-7 years from commencing to becoming commercially available. Japanese regulations help expedite new medical treatments. So sometime around 2026-2027 is not unreasonable.

    Dr. Tsuji is 50/51 years-old so he probably wants to take care of this hair thing asap before tackling other types of organ regeneration. Tsuji would potentially become one of richest men in Japan and easily a multimillionaire.

    On another Japanese front, there is Shiseido aiming to release their replicel treatment in 2019/2020.

    Then for scraps there is Dr. Brotzu’s lotion for release maybe in 2018/2019.

  91. I found a place that will get you a perscription and order topical fin mixed with up to 30% minox , in the us .

  92. 30% minoxidil is overdrive. I can only imagine the shedding phase on that. Best of luck man:) keep us posted how it works out

    1. Mjones bro don’t waste your important phase of life waiting for something that you don’t know when it’s going to come…. Get fue from a good surgeon… I agree it’s not Natural but still it gives a normal look.. Say even a treatment comes out I doubt that its strong enough to grow in frontal areas.. If something comes up it will be like icing on a cake…so get fue done.. The procedure takes few hours and two weeks of downtime that’s all…

    2. Thanks @mjones, im already a norwood 5.5to 6
      And im not on any treatment right now , so the shed doesnt bother me so much – lol . I hide my head under a hat everyday as well . Im not expecting much much,but, it would be cool to get to a norwood 4 . Im gonna take pics before and after . Im not gonna lie i am a little nervous about the fin as i have never tried it before

  93. Another thing i found today over at hairlosstalk forum is that supposedly hellouser has got some news on histogen hes gonna release pretty soon . Hes a believer in Histogen And is usually a pretty reliable source . If i see it i will post whatever it is here for the people that still care about it.

    1. Awesome thanks Eric, curious to see what news he has. Don’t worry about fin, it’s safe and if you get sides push through it. Your body will balance out in 6 moths and you will maintain your hair . You will probably gets some regrowth with that 15 Rogaine mix

  94. Any update on boosting 3a-HSD or introducing 3a-HSD into the scalp? I just stumbled upon 3a-HSD in a body building forum and immediately recognized the importance of such an enzyme in fighting MPB. This of course then led to a google search, and I was delighted to see that it was already being discussed on this blog, even more delighted that it was being discussed in 2016 and wasn’t an old idea that has been tested and failed. I think Roman’s research in the article and comments is spot on and I’d be interested in hearing if anyone has any more news on this topic. Thanks!

  95. google nail rubbing exercise for hair regrowth and indian gooseberry juice for hair growth .. im on it for a week or so , heard that it works in about nine months?!? any body knows about this?

  96. So.. no update on 3a-HSD. All I see is diversion to other topics here. I am seriously thinking an extract of crushed Broccoli in oil applied to scalp before bed is worth a try..whats there to lose ;) ?

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