Why do Men with Excessive Body Hair Bald Much More Frequently?

Unlucky on the Scalp, Lucky (?) on the Back (and Chest)

In the early years of this century (i.e., 2000-2003 or so), I started noticing that the vast majority of people that I saw in the gym or at the pool who had very hairy backs also tended to be heavily balding. If I had to put a figure to it, I would guess that 75 percent of men with very hairy backs tend to be balding severely.  In contrast, for those without back hair, the balding rate is much lower. In fact for young and middle-aged adults without any back hair whatsoever as well as little to no chest hair, the balding rate is probably less than 30 percent.  I doubt that I am off by much in both my above percentage guesses.

Besides at the gym and in the pool, I also noticed this trend among my own immediate family members and in-laws.  My father has zero back hair and very little chest hair, but he had an absolutely stellar head of hair into his 60s. Even in his early 70s, he still has better hair than I have in my 30s and of course I have a lot more body hair then him.  My brother-in-law is bald and has a hairy back.  Same case with several of my current best friends.

When I first started noticing this phenomenon, I was a big tennis (and sports in general) fan, and the two superstars of the game at the time, Andre Agassi and Pete Sampras, were both very hirsute in their bodies, but not so much on their scalps.  Agassi used to wax his chest and back hair regularly.  Since retiring, balding Sampras has been rumored to have had one or several hair transplants, and I would guess that his scalp would look more like his father’s if not for the transplant(s).

A common sight at American sporting events (source):

 

East Asian People — Lucky on the Scalp, Unlucky (?) on the Back (and Chest)

Native Americans/American Indians (related to East Asians) have almost zero body hair, and not surprisingly, I have rarely seen balding native Americans.  The one native American that I did see with major hair loss turned out to be half caucasian.  Chinese, Japanese and Korean people (all part of the East Asian family) rarely have chest or back hair, and tend to have much less balding in comparison to other races.

It should be noted that even among Asians, there are some exceptions to the stereotype:

Finasteride Works Better for People with Excessive Body Hair

Around a year ago, I discovered a very interesting 2014 study from Japan that found that people with more body hair (i.e., men who were “pileous” in areas other than the scalp) tended to respond better to finasteride treatment for androgenetic alopecia.  I found this to be a fascinating discovery.  Its all the more interesting because very few Japanese people are likely to be very “pileous”.  I wish someone would do the same study on very hairy caucasian men (I am including Armenians, Greeks, Persians, Turks, Afghans, East Indians, Middle Easterners etc… all as part of the caucasian race here).

Countless People on Finasteride or Dutasteride Have Seen a Subsequent Reduction in Body Hair

Over the years, I have read countless testimonials on various hair loss forums of people who were taking 5α-reductase inhibitors finasteride or dutasteride (to treat their scalp hair loss) seeing a significant reduction in body hair. People taking anti-androgens such as spironolactone and cyproterone acetate also report similar side effects.

However, to me, the surprising thing is that there are probably far more people who see no or negligible reduction in body hair than are those who see a reduction in body hair while on finasteride or dutasteride.  I would have guessed that drastically reducing DHT levels is bound to reduce body hair in most people, especially in those who have a ton of it to start off?  Yet, less than half of those hirsute people seem to be see a reduction in body hair when on those drugs.

In any case, below are  a few recent examples of people who noticed a reduction in body hair while on finasteride or dutasteride:

  • In an excellent recent thread worth bookmarking, HLT forum member “dnpuntold” stated: “body hair looks a lot thinner and less which is nice since I’m a freaking gorilla.”
  • On this very blog, in the comments to my post on the cost of generic finasteride, “paddy” stated: “I have been taking Propecia (non generic) for 18 yrs, I agree with the “hold the line” comment above. It pretty much stopped by hair loss when I started it. Have experienced no negative side effects that I know of but a nice bonus is that much of my other body hair (back, butt, arms, chest, etc) has thinned dramatically as if it reapportioned that hair back to my head. Was a welcomed “side effect”.
  • Also on this very blog, in the comments to my post on dutasteride success and failure stories, six (!) people thus far have mentioned body hair reduction after taking Avodart.

Do Men with Excess Body Hair and Balding Scalps Have Higher Testosterone and DHT Levels?

One of the biggest myths ever purported in the hair loss world is that balding men are more virile and have higher levels of testosterone.  This is not true.  I also do not think that balding men have significantly higher levels of dihydrotesterone (DHT) in comparison to non-balding men, although I have not read any data on that subject.  What is true is that balding men’s scalp hair follicles are more sensitive to the damaging effects of DHT.

For me, the more interesting thing is that it seems like balding men’s body hair is also more sensitive to the effects of DHT — but in the opposite direction.  DHT seems to make a high proportion of balding men grow copious amounts of body hair (a condition called hypertrichosis).

Some Skeptics

To my big surprise, two hair transplant surgeons that I have talked to about this phenomenon have told me that they are not sure of such a correlation regarding men with hairy backs and chests being more likely to bald then men without hair backs and chest. I am 100 percent convinced of such a correlation. In recent years, I have also read many hair loss forum members suggest the same thing. However, since there are always exceptions to the rule (e.g., most balding Asians with little body hair), this correlation theory does not get as much attention as it should.  There is always some person who will ruin a thread on this subject by writing “I have no body hair and am still balding.  So I do not buy this theory!”

Exception: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed has more scalp hair then would be expected based on his plentiful body hair:

HairyKhalidSheikhMuhammed

 

 

Body Hair Transplants (BHT)

In the headings for the first two sections of this post, I implied that people with hairy backs are lucky, but added a question mark (?) there. My reasoning for this ambiguity was that while most people with robust back hair would probably consider themselves unlucky, a somewhat recent trend in the hair transplant world has resulted in many people being grateful to have more body hair.  This trend involves moving body hair to balding regions of the scalp and is termed as body hair transplants (BHT).  I have discussed this a few times over the years, and will probably have more posts on the subject in the near future.

For now, its worth noting that only certain types of body hair are usually worth transplanting (beard, chest and back seem to be the most utilized, in that exact order), and body hair will never be as good as scalp hair that is moved from the permanent donor region at the back of the head.  Nevertheless, there are now 100s of video documented cases online of people who have been happy with body hair transplants.  For many people with very limited scalp donor hair (i.e., those with very extensive balding patterns), robust thick back hair and chest hair might now be considered to be a good/lucky thing!  Dr. Ray Wood’s first BHT patient video is worth watching.

Hairy Balding Women

While this post has been focused on men (since I doubt there are many women in the world who have their backs covered with thick lengthy hair), it should be noted that a high proportion of balding women also complain of excess body hair (usually in areas other than the back).  Many of these women suffer from a condition called polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) in which they have high levels of male hormones.  Here is a good resource for such women.

And Last and Definitely the Least: Ernie Primeau

In the history of the online hair loss world, there has never been anyone more insane and crazier than a certain Mr. Ernie Primeau.  I briefly discussed him in a post here.  Ernie holds the all-time record of number of forum and hair loss group posts….a record that will never be surpassed by another human.  Even into his old age, the man is still present online and continues to promote his theory that removing all of ones body hair via plucking will regrow scalp hair!! Of course I do not believe it.  However, perhaps it might very well have been Mr. Primeau who got me thinking about the inverse correlation between body hair and scalp hair over a decade ago, even though I believe it was probably my fellow gym and pool members and my family members.  In any event, I hope to never mention him again on this blog after today.

316 thoughts on “Why do Men with Excessive Body Hair Bald Much More Frequently?”

  1. Admin, amazingly, Anil Kapoor, best known for his turn as the talk show host in the movie Slumdog Millionaire, is an exception to this.
    You can check out his pics.

  2. I wonder how Dr. Takashi Tsuji is getting on with overcoming the obstacles he faced for hair multiplication.

    His is the only real game in town imo and his predictions (within 10 years/clinical trials in 2020), are far shorter than almost all the other hair researchers. (For example Claire Higgins thinks 20+ years.)

    Either Dr. Tsuji is optimistic or the others are too pessimistic. However, since he has demonstrated more real, tangible results (albeit in mice but he said he believes it will work in humans too) than the other researchers, I hope his estimations turn out to be correct and this blight can be eradicated by 2030.

  3. Long time lurker and love the site, so I thought I’d comment on this topic as it is relative to me.

    Both my older brothers had thick bushy hair but started to lose it by the time they were 23-24 years old and were bald by the time they were 30. While we all have hairy chests (we don’t have excessively hair legs though), sadly for me, I grew a wonderful (!) thatch of shoulder and back hair by the time I was 22. Even worse, I started to lose my hair before I had turned 19. Granted, I was the only one who grew his hair long but I don’t think that would have been a factor as I’d only grown my hair long for two years. Just as it started to look the way I wanted, it started to fall out. As far as I’m aware, I am the only one from either side of the family tree who has managed to grow the awful “back carpet”. God’s great joke huh? I once had hair halfway down my back, now I have hair all over my back! 🙁
    Guess I fit into your hypothesis quite well. I am also taller than both by 5-6″ and unlike them, I’ve always been a fatty! If that makes any difference?

    BTW, our father and mother’s father are/was bald so we didn’t stand a chance with head hair did we! 🙁

    On a side note, my eldest cousin (my father and his father were brothers) is 63 and still has a full head of hair but his younger brother by 4 years was an N7 before he turned 30! They have the same mother.
    Also in my home town I have a set of brothers, one whom is 79 and has the most awesome mane of thick, barely even greying hair, while his younger brother (7 or 8 years younger) has been an N5-6 for at least 25 years! That huge difference in baldness between brothers is such a freak out to me.

    Cheers. K

  4. @Matt,

    Off course you won’t argue with me. Cause your argumentation is weak as hell and I have destroyed your STAT3 ramblings already, which was a extremely weak hypothesis at best anyway. I have already explained that. You can’t bring anything forward…. Well aside from those cute rodent observations :). Your argumentation versus mine is just extremely weak. Gain or loss of function mutations of STAT3 look at them. Compare that to VDR, HR, EDAR, etc. Based on this we can already say that STAT3 doesn’t function a big role in hair follicle biology.

    Now are you going to get this JAK cream or not Matty? I’m waiting… Seems strange to me that a balding kid doesn’t pursue action while in his beliefs an excellent hair growth agent is out there? Jup, that is really a characteristic of a beta male, but I’ll forgive you Matt since you are still a boy. Have fun on your summer camp! Don’t forget to hydrate yourself!

    I repeat who is going to get this JAK cream? I’m looking mostly at the people who believe in this angle?

    1. Farhan what makes you confident about Brotzu’s lotion? I know that Dr. Brotzu said it can reverse years of hair loss, but that seems quite outlandish…

  5. Hey Swoop,

    Do you have an inkling how Tsuji is getting on? What does he have left to figure out before human testing, is it how to multiply the “germs” in sufficient amounts to cover a whole scalp?

    If he could only replicate on a human what he did on those mice, times a couple of thousand. Deal done!

    1. Hey Tom,

      Not the specifics. He said;

      “As you pointed, the problem of our project is the expansion of stem cells in the bulge region and dermal papillae. In these problems, the expansion of epithelial bulge stem cells is critical issue. Thus, we are now trying to expand the stem cells.”

      So I assume that is near completion.. And he also said that he is aiming for a human clinical trial in 2020… So that might mean that he will be engaging in pre-clinical trials soon.

      I hope he will get there as soon as possible. In my view he is the first contender to possibly really establish a “cure”. RIKEN is cutting edge. If anyone will be able to do it it’s Dr. Tsuji imo.

      1. Hey Swoop,

        How difficult do you think expanding the epithelial bulge stem cells will be for Tsuji and his team? Is it something considered unimaginably tricky or has it been achieved by other scientists before? I like that the Doctor said somewhere “we will overcome these challenges”. That sounds positive, but I want to know the chances of success or failure for this.

        Also, does Tsuji yet know how he will multiply the cells in high enough amount to reproduce a high number of follicles?

        Maybe Tsuji says 2020 because he figures that’s how long it would take to solve the issue of epithelial bulge stem cells. I hope they don’t see it as the final deadline for solving this issue before they shelf the project.

  6. First of all love this blog, I’ve lost 75% of my hair (20yrs old)
    This blog gives me hope. I really hope there’s is going to be a cure/treatment in the next decade 🙂 and guys… being nearly bald at age 20 is not a funny condition trust me, be thankful to experience hairloss at a more advanced aged (no offense)

    I’ve been following this blog for the past 6 months now and I feel the need to share this (sorry @admin)

    @swoop

    I’m 20 years old man and I can tell by the way you respond to others that i’m more mature than you are. You are by far the most arrogant person I have ever encountered and that doesn’t serve you. Your language is shockingly impulsive and aggressive

    “Now are you going to get this JAK cream or not Matty? I’m waiting… Seems strange to me that a balding kid doesn’t pursue action while in his beliefs an excellent hair growth agent is out there? Jup, that is really a characteristic of a beta male, but I’ll forgive you Matt since you are still a boy. Have fun on your summer camp! Don’t forget to hydrate yourself!”

    This paragraph in your last comment is beyond any level of stupidity, because it doesn’t serve any purpose but to directly attack the person you are talking to… dude, a 14 year reacts in such ways… not an adult.

    So please, your knowledge is R E A L L Y H E L P F U L L , but stop thinking you are the smart one, because if you were, you wouldn’t take so much pleasure in proving it on a f** blog about baldness,

    I understand that a cure would serve all of us (me included), but people… hair is JUST HAIR. You’re facing a problem which has a simple, costless solution : acceptance goddammit
    You can choose to just ignore that aspect of your life, whereas someone with cancer just can’t choose to simply ignore his condition.

    I find it awkward that it takes a 20year old french boy to remind you that… hairloss isn’t life threatening 😀 😀 😀 it’s just a pain in the ass

  7. @swoop

    Even if you are right about JAK’s (and I think you are), you’re wrong in the way to word it… the way you express your point is very very very immature
    grow up…

  8. Hi Guys,

    Just a little update on liposomal finasteride gel from H&W.

    I have been using it for around a week now and I haven’t felt a single sign of it going systemic.
    I apply it at night before going to bed and shower in the morning

    Bear in mind that I tried oral fin twice and quit both of the times due to sides.
    Once I got was unable to sustain an erection for a whole week and the other time I got brain fog almost immediately after starting which made it very hard to concentrate in college.
    (Don’t worry everything came back to normal 2 weeks upon discontinuation)

    I had an initial blood test for DHT before starting and I will do another one in 2-3 months to ensure that it’s not lowering my DHT systematically.
    I might also order a scalp analyzer device to closely monitor the progress of the hair.

    I think this news is pretty encouraging and if it proves to be effective without going systemic, this is a true blessing.

    As a side note, for god’s sake guys please stop being pessimistic and whining at each other.
    We’re all in the same boat and pessimism doesn’t help anything.
    As steve jobs said: ”the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do”
    Let’s get along and work with each other with a positive attitude to solve that *#** AGA puzzle to make baldness history.
    I am confident it will happen. In the mean time, this website gives us hope, which is huge

    Cheers

  9. Guys at the end of the day every one here is hair loss sufferer… we shouldnt let our selves down or even get our hopes too high…just keep updated with what our wonderful admin is providing with..what rest say is crap…bcos no one is a scientist here…guys i watch a lot of videos about rockets … that doesn’t make me a rocket scientist …

  10. @Saleen, thank you very much for the update. Please keep updating! I think im gonna order from that italian place who makes it in Europe. How much did you pay for a months supply?

  11. BHT most definetely the way to go and the only thing that can bring high norwoods back to nw1. People should strongly consider it as a option, i recommend using only beard grafts,if you have a full beard and untouched donor hair in the back of your hair do yourself a favor and get started on fue 2-3 procedures and you wont have to worry about hairloss ever.

  12. Not sure of the correlation between head and body hair but there is a correlation between swoop being so critical and immature and people responding to him. He thrives off arguments and abusing people. Zero interaction will mean zero swoop. Just ignore.

  13. @Paco,

    I understand that I’m immature and come over as arrogant. I Just dislike ignorant people like Matt. Also there was a message behind that alinea. I simply can’t understand how someone would be such a believer and subsequently doesn’t grab the opportunity when it arises.

    Anyway respect to you for handling the issue that well at 20 years of age. I have said many times that I feel privileged in comparison to the really young guys out there like you who have extensive hair loss at a very young age. I certainly consider myself very lucky Paco. I was a NW3 at age 24, it could have been way worse.

    Good luck to you and thank you for the constructive criticism Paco.

    To everyone else please understand that even in the near future the reversibility of AGA will highly likely still prove to be very difficult or simply not possible. Therefore if you can, look at current options too if you haven’t done already. Looking at the future without any thought of not undertaking action currently, because you are confident that something greater may arise, could prove to be a huge mistake. Years pass by fast and you only live once. Remember that.

    I’m the proof of that among other countless people;

    https://s32.postimg.org/jdd9lqqlh/progresstime.jpg

    The picture above isn’t “hope’. It’s the result of taking action. u

    I’ll stop posting now as I have made my point more than clear and it’s becoming too much of a one man show. I’ll comment once in a while though :).

    Good luck everyone and let’s hope we’ll get better treatments asap.

    Later, Swooping out boys!

    1. Yes Swoop please take a break from commenting here now for the next few posts. Thereafter you are welcome to add in your educated non-insulting non-bragging opinions on suitable occasions, but I do not have time to monitor the comments for hours a day and it seems like each time you will post a comment there will be many people attacking you. If you do post a comment please make sure it applies to the post being discussed or entails something very new and interesting (e.g., start of a clinical trial, new company, new study etc…) that I need to know about.

      I also prefer your not coming back just to laugh and say “I told you so” each time some treatment fails or each time some of your scientist friends give you discouraging news. Vast majority of treatments will either fail or never reach commercialization and we just hope that several succeed.

      Readers who wish to ask Swoop any questions should join hairlosstalk forums and ask him directly. I post links to that forum all the time on here and Swoop is on there every day. He is also on bald truth talk forums (as Swooping) as well as on hair restoration network forums. He can list other names of forums too if I am missing any.

  14. @Admin, I prefer people not to ask me questions.

    Read yourself boys. Get educated on hair follicle biology. You’ll quickly understand the extreme difficulty of reversibility in AGA. Said that a thousand times already. 17b estradiol + eunuch lifestyle, you ain’t going to get better than that in the near future. Get used to that already. Ciao.

    1. Judging by the number of questions you replied to on here and on all the hair loss forums for several years now, I would have guessed that you love to answer questions Swoop! I guess I am really bad at reading you.

  15. Eunuch lifestyle i understand this as a mockery to hair loss industry… And yes it’s a shame. New pathways about hair loss(MPB) are discovered and the knowleadge about hair follicle cycle and “etiology” of androgenetic alopecia are BETTER than 5 years ago, A lot of treatments in the pipeline, clinical trials… the real results will be available soon. More good news are coming.

  16. @Swoop for a guy that is so certain on the lack of future for a hairloss cure you spend much time posting and reading on forums and blogs. If it’s this fruitless, you can feel free to move on.

    Personally, i don’t disagree. I believe there won’t be an exact cure and that some of the problems are to do with ageing and cell death. But, there are incredible things happening in the science world with stem cells. The other day i saw a kid have a nose transplant from a nose that was grown on his own forehead. They’re talking of growing donor organs in pigs.

    Things are happening, stranger.. weirder things to comprehend. If they can grow an organ in a pig to transplant into a human, i’m sure they can grown the hair organs in our temple areas.

    At the end of the day it’s a disease a defective gene somewhere which is culpable for early on set of balding. Some men/women have it, some dont.. Balding is also genetic, but in your 20-40s there is something thats not right.. its a disease. Diseases can be cured.. there is some real nasty ones that are being cured right now.

    1. They just need to take hairs from the back of the head, manipulate and multiply these cells and re-inject them to regrow new hairs in normal density. Like Tsuji is aiming to do.

      This will be the “cure” at the end of the day. Not fixing existing hairs.

  17. JAKs will do something, the study will help us learn more on how it effects hair growth. That could be key to unlocking a cure, will it be the cure? Maybe not, but it’s progress.

  18. Guys listen I know im off the subject here however I believe it is very very important that we have some guys from this forum enroll in the setipiprant trial that supposedly going to recruit soon. This way we can get immediate feedback instead of waiting three years!!!! I believe this is my only shot of getting my hands on a possible effective treatment within the next three years. Please dont turn this into “if everything goes perfect we will have other options in two years”. I dont have two years. My hair going super fast without meds…which I cant tolerate. Thanks

  19. I agree with breezy. Clearly JAK has a positive effect on hair follicles. Maybe it will not work as well on AGA, but maybe it will work even better. Who knows. I am sure there is something to this though. Hopefully we get some answers soon. I want to be myself again lol.
    I am especially interested in this new Aclaris team working on the topical that apparently regrows hair that has even been dormant for decades due to AGA. It even re-pigments the hair strands? That to me means the hair follicle is quite healthy again, and if it can do that i would assume it should work well. I feel like within the next few years we are going to have a snowball like effect of treatments coming our way. More and more companies seem to be throwing their name into the hat with all the new discoveries regarding mpb, and its going to be like a race to the finish. Seems to me there has been more progress in the last year or two than in the last 20.

    Good post admin! Thanks for putting an end to the unnecessary arguing. Starting to get annoying scrolling through 100 stupid posts to find something of interest.

    1. Watch the next approved treatment be dutasteride haha. That would be a huge kick in the balls for all of us. Plus you know GlaxoSmithKline will make it so hard for any other treatment to hit the market for mpb. They are a beast of a pharmaceutical company!
      In all seriousness though I think we will have a couple new treatments to hit the market. Follica as a new surgical option and maybe histogen, SM for a new drug. Or we could use Jak off label when they release it for Areata. All I know is that we need something ASAP! My hair is just getting worse each month. I’m exhausted of waiting since 2001. I just want to wake up one morning and see a commercial on TV advertising a new fda approved drug for mpb.

    2. Rancid that company that grew hair back after decades is not Alaris. It’s riverside pharmaceuticals. Yes I agree though it sounds promising

  20. everytime i revisit this blog i realize it’s just people encouraging or discouraging one another to hope or not to hope. Then some bro science. Then some theories that don’t matter.

  21. Swoop,

    You said a pharmacy in the US was compounding tofa? Was that on a doctors order or what? I’d be down to trial it and I’m waiting to get on a gb as well. I have my doubts, but at this point, what the hell. Tried everything else to get rid of inflammation lol. Last resort is cyclosporine

  22. A weird post was just on my google I thought I’d show since I know axe just released their waterless shampoo 2 and a half years ago that I specially on early work days waking up late would use (really convenient smelled good kinda gross tho really) and my mpb started rapidly 2 and a half years ago on the dot facebook pictures confirm. So if any of you have some might wanna reconsider… http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/07/the-unfortunate-reality-of-dry-shampoo/489989/

  23. @William,

    50mg? Make baseline pictures please. That’s a insane concentration and dosage. Be careful. If that doesn’t work it’s JAK’s in the trashcan. That will most definitely saturate every JAK (1, 2 , 3).

    @Emperor,

    Yes a pharmacy compounds it. You’ll still need prescription though so find someone who can work with you. There you go;

    https://www.facebook.com/chemistryrx/photos/pb.366683910114911.-2207520000.1463113501./789559087827389/?type=3&size=1536%2C2048&fbid=789559087827389

    Can you discuss it with your doctor? Show him the upcoming trial of Aclaris.

    @Admin,

    Let’s figure this out. Be a leader. Many can’t grab the opportunity it seems and you are 60/40 so….Make your next post about people who can trial this stuff? I was thinking of also asking Christopher01, he suffers from Vitiligo so he should obtain this compounded cream easily. What do you think? I can make posts on forums informing people about this. You make a post on this blog. Simple we’ll get to know within months if this works or not instead of years ;). What do you say, admin?

  24. Correct me if im wrong but did they not say that an important thing about topical JAK is how it is absorbed into the follicle? I may be dreaming but I was under the impression that this is a very important aspect of their research and thats why its not as simple as making our own compounds to smear on our scalps to see if it works…

    1. The stuff I´m talking about is a compounded cream Spanky straight from the pharmacy in a liposomal base.

      `Dr. Sidbury has a compounding pharmacy make topical tofacitinib 2% in a liposomal base, which achieves better penetration than Versabase. He recommends Chemistry Rx in Philadelphia for compounding.`

  25. @bw

    I will look for more information on the compound (can you tell me what kind of information is significant for the compound?). I’m not a expert.

    I’m a very good contact. The product comes directly from a company that makes the drug . The Tofa is not cut . This is the optimal quality and not what we find on the black market or internet quality.

    @Ari

    Jak3 ? I’m not an expert. Can you explain to me?

    @Tyler

    Motif: Diffuse medicinal alopecia (Prozac, Risperidone, Concerta at VERY high dose during 14 years). I HAVE NOT A AGA !!! Approximately 5 hair/cm2. The hair are very very very very very thin. Whole head is affected.

    I use: Tofa 50 mg in DMSO.

    @Swoop

    Yes, I will post pictures and informations at Hairlosstalk (english forum) and Hairlossforum (french forum).

    You say: “That will most definitely saturate every JAK (1, 2 , 3).” I’m not a expert, explain me please.

    My topical form is liquid and not a cream (as Chemistry Rx). Is it bad or insignificant ?

    What do you think that is better for me: 2X by day or only one application by day?

    My itching were multiplied by 10 yesterday when the first application in evening. It’s normal? I will applicate second application today.

    1. Swoop you dumbass they said only one type of JAK works (JAK3 only in covalently bound format, JAK1 and JAK2 won’t work). Even the company AClaris and Christiano are not yet sure about the carrier and exact delivery method and you expect some local pharmacy to figure it out? Has there ever been a bigger idiot on this blog than you Swoop??? You are making people risk their lives with this. These are no jokes of a drug…they could cause cancer. What a moron. Admin ban this fool befor he causes someone to do this and get serious side effects.

      1. Wait are you sincerely saying that I make people risk their lives with this? You need to visit a psychopath. I asked Christopher to discuss this with his doctor. You should be banned for your language.

        Anyone trying JAK inhibitors should discuss it with his doctor including William.

        See admin? Look at that language.

        1. Swoop, you e-mailed me several days ago and said you were going away:-) I said come back on rare occasions.

          And no I am not going to try JAK inhibitors, and I would recommend all blog readers to avoid trying them either for now please.

          I very much doubt any reputable doctor will let you take JAKs for AGA, but you can try getting a consultation with Dr. King or Dr. Christiano if you are really willing to try and risk it. They probably know more than anyone else in the world about this stuff and potential side effects.

  26. I don’t know why people are still trying to make their own Jak still. It hasnt even begun trials for AGA yet. We already have had someone try it witout results. We still do not know what vehicle to use and what % etc. From what I remember it wasnt even really about penetrating the skin, it was finding a way to anchor it to the follicle. Im sorry but just buying Jak inhibitors and mixing them into something and slapping it on your head is not going to give us what we want. We need to know exactly what they are using, at what percent, with what vehicle, and anything else that goes into the drug. Imo you are just setting yourself up for disappointment, and then we are going to have to hear from the “anti jak” crew again saying I told you so. Not to mention, if your hairloss really isnt AGA and rather drug induced loss, whether you get results or not doesn’t tell us anything about whether or not it will work for aga.

    1. That’s why we need someone to use that specific compound cream from that Pharmacy ;). That way there will be no doubt about the legitimacy and about the penetration of the compound.

      1. Lol advising readers to spend $300 a month for a cream from unknown pharmacy when even Alacris does not know for sure how best to make the topical yet. We have Darwin award winners in this blog truly.

        1. Hahahaha. So that means that there is not any indication of JAK working for humans right? Only the rodent model? Thanks for confirming. God you made my day.

          Mate your hair follicles are D O O M E D. There is not going to be a cure short term. You are a delusional ape, together with some other people here.

          Keep waiting bro. Remember years are flying by!

          @Admin this is my last post here. Speak to me when we approach 2020. I’ll buy you a new domain name hairlosscure2025.com by that time, cool?

          Some pure beta cuckolds and delusional peeps on this blog haha. People like you around here don’t even deserve a goddamn cure, let’s be honest about that.

          To some other people here I feel for you guys. Hope the best for you but I would keep your expectations extremely low for the near future!

          Ciao! Swoop.

          1. Btw this:

            “Some pure beta cuckolds and delusional peeps on this blog haha. People like you around here don’t even deserve a goddamn cure, let’s be honest about that.”

            Was not directed to you admin, but the guy above and some other peeps. Anyway this last and final post.

  27. Whoever puts jak on their heads is a moron for two reasons.

    1) You messing with your immune system and possibly your life. If this gets in your blood stream there could be severe side effects.

    2) A few people tried it already with no results. We don’t know the exact vehicle and how to mix it. Only Aclaris knows I think. Plus you are wasting your money

    1. I can not accept my baldness. I am paralyzed with the idea to start this fall the university. Suicide is my only option to avoid shame . So , even die, so try something despite the risks.

      1. Its ok to try if you have access, just keep very close watch to any reaction or color changes to scalp skin. You will surely succeed, GBU!

      2. William get on Propecia bro! It’s proven to work and it will stop you from balding for at least 5 yrs. Don’t bother with jak you will just waste time and more hair. DON’T COMMIT SUICIDE! trust me dude get on Propecia. Even if you get sides just ride them out. It’s better to get a bit of erectile dysfunction for a month than to kill yourself. Go to a dermatologist get an rx for brand name Propecia and stop your hair loss. Sht you might even get good regrowth since you are young. I started at 20, diffuse thinner, I filled in my diffuse hair and stabilized a nw1.5 for 14 years. I have aggressive mob genes. All men in my family are nw5-7 bald by 27.

        1. mjones, nice advice! But I don’t think he will be able to handle ED, if he is not able to handle HL. Hope he gets same success as any AA candidate. This is just a phase in his life, he will surely enjoy life, but needs to be sure, not to spoil health just becoz of current situation.

          1. Thanks PK! I try my best haha. He should definitely try Propecia. He may be one of the many who don’t get sides.

          2. Don’t take Propecia. Don’t listen mjones and PK they want only money they don’t care about your health.

  28. Admin, I am restraining myself from cursing out Paul Phoenix due to respect to you and this website but can you please tell Paul to stop using his scare tactics on young forum members from using Propecia. Propecia works for many without sides and works well for those who have sides.
    @ Paul phoenix! No one is making you take Propecia dude! I’m simply telling the kid it can halt his hair loss. I mentioned to him there are sides. He is an adult and he will weigh out what he wants to do. However you have no right to accuse me making money from Propecia you moron. I don’t work for merk. I’m simply trying to help the kid save his hair through his 20s. Just because you are nw7 and miserable don’t scare people on here from using Propecia that could end up working really well for him. Plus, do you honestly think the new treatments won’t have sides hahaha. Jak will, SM will, histogen will. These all manipulate wnt pathways of cells. Who knows this stuff might cause cancer and that’s why they are taking so long to start phase3. Or they may have other sides. It’s a drug applied to your body. They all have sides. They may not tell you now but if it gets released they won’t tell you for years so they make their profit. How many commercials do you see on TV where lawyers advertise getting settlement payments for people who used pharmaceutical drugs where the companies downplayed the sides. Stop saying new drugs are safer and Propecia is bad. All drugs are bad. You try them and see how well you can tolerate it. If it’s bad you quit it. Plain and simple

    1. I tried Propecia during two years (2014-2015) and I had not results (not stop fall, not growing hair). I took 1/4 of pill by day. It’s the good dosage? With 5 very thin hair by cm2, I really need regrowth of hair. If not, the little bit of hair on my head is insufficient. Maintenance is insufficient. Also, I think that Propecia can be effective in some AGA mostly when it’s a DHT problem. I’ve not AGA… I don’t sure of my affirmations. Correct me if im wrong.

      1. William, if you don’t have AGA then you shouldn’t be taking Propecia. If you do have aga them you should take recommended dose of 1mg daily.

        1. I know. The dermatologist that prescribe propecia to me is a f*cking moron. In 2014, I didn’t have as much knowledge as today.

        2. According to many experts (including those at the conference in Georgia 24-26 June ) , if my hair cycles are almost all exhausted (as in some AGA) , I have no chance to get my hair. In contrary to pelade and auto-immune alopecia (alipecia aereta), the exhaustion of hair cycles is irreversible. Do you think I have still a chance to get out. Do you believe that my cells are exhausted and dead forever?

          1. William , I recommend you visit a trichologist who can examine you scalp very closely, maybe you have hidden inflammation that can be treated. By no means be desperate, you will find a good solution, and life will bring you lots of happiness, just keep going

    2. I’m with Paul. Why take something that’s only gonna slow the loss down. It’s gonna b 2017 soon. We should’ve had a cure or an effective treatment by now. Sad

  29. I know. The dermatologist that prescribe propecia to me is a f moron. In 2014, I didn’t have as much knowledge as today.

  30. I don’t agree with that theory of mpb sufferers hair loss is iriversible. Which dermatologist said that at the cobference? Why do people who are nw5 grow tons of hair to be a nw3 with Rogaine alone. Yes it’s a once in a blue moon success story but that person had hair cycles that have been exhausted and kick started again. I grew back terminal hairs that were gone since I was 19 that got kick started with Rogaine . I think 90% of these researchers are idiots and don’t use common sense. I mean it was just recently one researcher said hair follicles are still alive but just miniaturized on the scalp. Didn’t one of these morons actually look at a bald guys scalp. You can see with the naked eye the follicles are miniaturized but still there. This is the true reason why we don’t have any treatments. Our hands lay on dumb scientist and crooks who sell effective treatments to the highest bidder to only be shelved and to not see the light of day

    1. Your regrowth with minox are terminal? Fall hair in AGA is because many reason. Sometime, hair is blocked and can’t finish hair cycle. Minox or other treatment deblock hair but if the hair blocked was in 24th cycle on 25th, the hair don’t regrowth terminal and it rest just 1 cycles to do. Is my theory.

      Me nothing my hair are terminal. When hair is very thin. it’s because hair cycle are almost exhausted.

      I don’t sure of my affirmation.

      All expert say that it’s irreversible when all hair cycle is exhausted. When the hair fall for the last time and he is miniaturized, the matrix cell dead. See hairlosstalk section of Conference Georgia.

  31. I definitely think there is a strong link between MPB and body hair. How could there not be if androgens cause the development of secondary male characteristics such as body hair and puberty changes? Men with MPB have higher androgen levels IMO then men without which triggers the excessive body hair. Largely is part genetics too
    I think if you did hormone panels you would find excessive body hair guys have much higher DHT/T then other men IMO which is why they have bad MPB.

    1. But it seems like balding men do not have more testosterone than nonbalding men. I am curious if they have similar DHT levels or not.

      1. Admin, I think it all has to do with the sensitivity of hair follicles to dht and not the levels. I’m sure there is a link to really hairy guys and balding but not all hairy guys are bald. However all men dht sensitivity are bald or balding. We really have a complicated condition. I wish our donor hair would rejuvenate on its own. We could all get fue and be done with it. Like every time you get an fue, the donor hair would regrow and you go back for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th mega session and be done with it. It’s like mother nature made mpb the curse for mankind with no solution

      2. Wait a second how do we know that T levels are the same between balding and non balding men? That link saying its not true never proves anything or gives any real numbers. It just goes through the history of MPB showing DHT is more important which it is. No one has ever really even proven that MPB is 100 percent caused by only DHT and that T is not involved at all.
        I guess I feel its not a solved question, but I would agree DHT is the major factor even if T is a minor player so it seems hairy men would have a lot higher DHT.

  32. I have had the unfortunate experience in the past year or two of suddenly getting a ton more body hair . I have no idea why. I am not on any new pharmaceutical drugs or any PEDs. I was on Avodart from 2002-2010, but never had a change in body hair before, during, or after Avodart.
    I am back on Finasteride for the first time since 2002. No reduction in body hair. For the record, I’m 51. Maybe I’m experiencing a 2nd puberty.

  33. jules – for 2 reasons:
    1) my insurance company was mistakenly paying for my Dutasteride for years – they thought I took it for prostate issues, not hairloss issues. Suddenly, they sent a letter saying I would need to switch to proscar if they were going to cover any such drug. So it was way too expensive to continue
    2) After being on Dutasteride for about 8 years, I suddenly was getting prostatitis-like symptoms. While I don’t believe Dut was causing it (since I was on it so long with no issues), I wanted to get off it for awhile to see if things got better.

    My finasteride is $99 for a 90-day supply at Walgreens (GoodRx coupon). I can handle that. I’ve been on Rogaine since 1988! Also doing the Hairmax for about 10 years.

  34. I like Swoop / Swooping. He even has the balls to correct esteemed doctors such as Dr. Karadeniz and Dr. Feller (see below two links and his posting in those linked pages) when the doctors are wrong and most people let doctors get aways with it. We need people like Swoop on here.

    http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/178402-urgent-consumer-alert-ishrs-2.html

    http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/179786-fut-more-popular-than-fue-post2444073.html#post2444073

  35. From: American Academy of Dermatology Association, June 01, 2012 Interview:
    Dr. Van Voorhees: Why do you think there’s that threshold where miniaturization becomes non-reversible?
    Dr. Cotsarelis: That’s an interesting question. There might be other genes downstream of testosterone playing a role. We already know that if you inhibit testosterone that hair doesn’t revert once it’s completely miniaturized. The fate of the hair follicle is determined very early on during development; there’s patterning, that’s why you have follicles responding to androgens on the top of the scalp and in the beard area in completely different ways. Androgen receptors are set up very early in development; I think the more we understand about that patterning the more we’ll likely be able to figure out what’s going on with hair loss.

  36. Why do Men with Excessive Body Hair Bald Much More Frequently?
    ————————————————————
    this is not true.
    This is like saying “Men with deep set eyes Bald Much More Frequently”, or “Men with big belly Bald Much More Frequently”., “Men with higher education Bald Much More Frequently”…..
    Most of Caucasians have excessive body hair, of course what you observe is most bald people have excessive body hair, it’s just a matter of probability.
    While in Asia, what you observe is most bald people have little body hair, because most of them are not hairy.

  37. Why end male pattern baldness? It is not an illness in need of a cure. Other than losing the hair on top of our head, it doesn’t hurt, as there are no other symptoms. It is a natural, normal inherited trait. We fear it because we are taught to believe no one likes the looks of it and it gets only bad press.
    Back in my senior year of college several of my classmates, all still in their 20s, were going bald. One went bald in about one year. They all had the typical male pattern baldness, losing their hair on top of their head, leaving just a fringe on the side and back. We were all surprised and the rest of us guys checked to see if we, too, would go bald. My reaction to it disturbed me. It didn’t make sense. I became insanely jealous of them. I found that I wanted to go bald. It was an irresistible urge. I shaved my hair off, but that did not satisfy me. I hated the ‘hair shadow’ effect and I hated the stubble that would grow back just hours after shaving my head. I wanted male pattern baldness. I really, really wanted to lose the hair off the top of my head, like those classmates. My hair did recede a little at the temples, but when there was no follow-through and I didn’t continue to bald, I was deeply depressed. For decades after my wife and I were married, I would periodically check to see if my hairline was receding, hoping and praying for signs of balding. Finally, in my early 50s, my wish came true. My hair began to rapidly recede and thin out. I panicked, fearing my wife would hate it. Instead, she was thrilled and begged me to just let myself go bald. I didn’t have to be begged and nature made short order of my hair. In less than two years I was totally bald on top, with only the usual ‘horseshoe’ fringe around the sides and back. I was finally male pattern bald and deliriously happy about it. That was 20 years ago.
    I suspect I am not alone, nor is my wife. I believe there are many men who eagerly anticipate going bald and many men who are disappointed when they don’t go bald. I also believe there are countless women out there, who, like my lovely wife, prefer bald men to men with a full head of hair. Let’s keep the male pattern baldness option available for those who want it. And a ‘cure’ or prevention for those who don’t want it. Had there been a safe to use supplement that promoted and accelerated male pattern baldness available to me, I would have eagerly taken it immediately after my wife and I were married 40 years ago. Going bald has been one of the best things that ever happened to me. I absolutely love male pattern baldness. So does my wife. She keeps telling me how sexy it is and she loves kissing me on top of my shiny bald head. What a turn on!

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