The Arrector Pili Muscle (aka Goosebump Muscle)

I originally wrote this post on the arrector pili muscle (APM) in 2017, with an update in 2020.

Recently, I discovered a 2021 video in which the semi-retired dermatologist Dr. Andrew Messenger of the UK makes some important claims. He thinks that current hair loss treatments mainly impact the hair cycle. They do not reverse miniaturization, and he presents proof of this phenomenon.

Moreover, he theorizes that the structural changes in miniaturized hair follicles are perhaps more profound that previously foreseen. In particular, the irreversible destruction of the arrector pili muscle and subsequent fat infiltration. He presents an image from Dr. Rodney Sinclair’s 2014 paper on this subject, which I discussed in one of my past updates further below.

However, I am skeptical about the irreversibility of hair regrowth once the APM is beyond repair. It seems like Dr. Ralf Paus in the second half of the above video is also optimistic about the potential reversal of miniaturized hairs via a number of treatments.

I am especially curious as to how hair transplants on people with extensive Norwood 5-6 level balding work so well (since arrector pili muscles throughout their scalp are destroyed). Even body hair to scalp transplants often work well (especially beard hair). Can body hair follicles that are moved to the scalp help reinvigorate dead arrector pili muscles? Or can you actually move arrector pili muscles from the body to the scalp?

Also of interest, there are quite a few spectacular male-to-female transition hair growth results that are solely credited to medications such as Dutasteride, Spironolactone and Estrogen.

Please see the section titled “My Points of Contention” at the bottom of this post, where I elaborate further on these arguments. I have e-mailed both doctors to see if they have any further feedback.

Update: August 7, 2020 

Goosebumps, the Sympathetic Nervous System and Hair Growth

Yesterday, Taiwanese and US researchers published an important paper titled: “Cell Types Promoting Goosebumps Form a Niche to Regulate Hair Follicle Stem Cells.” The work was led by Dr. Lin Sung-jan of National Taiwan University, in collaboration with researchers from Harvard University (US).

Arrector Pili Muscle and Goosebumps
Goosebumps, Arrector Pili Muscle and Hair Growth.

The scientists made some important discoveries in relation to the arrector pili muscle (APM), and the sympathetic nervous system. The APM maintains sympathetic innervation to hair follicle stem cells. (HFSCs) The sympathetic nerve activates HFSCs via synapse-like contacts and norepinephrine. An important quote:

“APMs are often lost in the scalp skin of people with androgenetic alopecia. It is possible that in such skin, loss of APMs leads to the loss of sympathetic nerves, making HFSCs more difficult to activate. Our results also suggest the potential of using selective β2 agonists to promote HFSC activation.”

Lin’s team found that the biological mechanism behind baldness in men is closely connected to the sympathetic nervous system. Hair follicle stem cells activate after receiving signals via what are known as ADRB2 receptors. Based on these findings, the researchers hope to develop small molecule drugs that can activate ADRB2 receptors as a means of regenerating hair.

Goose bumps are a sympathetic nerve response involving the contraction of tiny muscles all over our bodies. These arrector pili muscles causes hair to stand up straight on the skin when we are fearful and under threat. The scientists aim to ultimately control the muscle-nerve system that drives hair regeneration. A video of these findings is embedded below. It is quite something to see Dr. Lin Sung-jan being mobbed by the media.

Jan 10, 2017

Androgenetic Alopecia: New insights into the role of the Arrector Pili Muscle

Several weeks ago, the arrector pili muscle got significant coverage in a few newspapers around the world. Famed Australian dermatologist Dr. Rodney Sinclair co-authored an important paper titled “The arrector pili muscle, the bridge between the follicular stem cell niche and the interfollicular epidermis” that was just published this month.

Dr. Sinclair has been involved in this area of hair loss research for a few years. See his 2014 paper titled: Beyond goosebumps: Does the arrector pili muscle have a role in hair loss? Also see the very interesting new insights on the APM section of his website. Australian newspapers were especially interested in this latest study and its findings as evidenced by articles such as this one and this one.

The Arrector Pili Muscle

Arrector pili muscles are small muscles attached to individual human hair follicles on both the scalp as well as body (so we have millions of these muscles throughout our bodies). Contraction of these muscles causes hairs to stand up, a phenomenon that is known as goosebumps. Therefore, the musculus arrector pili is often referred to as the goosebump muscle.

Every hair root is connected to the arrector pili. This smooth muscle contracts in response to signals from the “fight or flight” sympathetic nervous system.

Arrector Pili Muscle Degeneration and Hair Loss

In recent years, a few studies have come out that suggest a possible connection between the arrector pili muscle degenerating (where it gets replaced by fat) and hair loss due to the subsequent disconnection between various hair follicle stem cell populations. It is possible that an intact arrector pili muscle plays a crucial role in the maintenance of follicular integrity and stability.

However, there are many uncertainties about this theory that I discuss in the next section. It seems that while in alopecia areata (AA) patients the arrector pili muscle remains intact, this is not true in androgenetic alopecia (AGA) patients. Unfortunately, over 95 percent of balding men suffer from AGA. So this could be why it is much easier to grow back hair for people with AA compared to people with AGA.

However, the rate at which the arrector pili muscle degenerates and gets replaced by fat varies substantially between patients and between individual hairs on the same scalp. Some miniaturized vellus hairs in balding regions might even never lose most of their arrector pili muscle connection.

My Points of Contention

  • According to Dr. Sinclair’s own quote from a past paper, “It remains unclear whether arrector pili muscle regression is a cause or effect of permanent follicle miniaturization“. I think this is the crux of the issue surrounding this theory/hypothesis.
  • I am curious why hair that is transplanted from the back of a person’s scalp to the front grows so well if the arrector pili muscles in front have been destroyed? Surely the transplanted hair cannot just automatically regenerate the arrector pili muscle?
  • Related to the above, an important Japanese study from 2012 concludes that correctly transplanted hair can re-enable “connectivity and cooperation” with the arrector pili muscle and nerve system. In effect, it might be very possible to reactivate or regenerate the APM.
  • In Dr. Tsuji and his team’s groundbreaking technology “the transplanted primordium also forms connections with surrounding tissues (arrector pili muscle and nerves) and repeats normal hair cycles”.
  • There are 100s of online anecdotal reports with before and after photos of people regrowing long-lost hair in bald scalps. Miracle results are especially common in people undergoing male-to-female transition regimens. You can also find many reports of surprising hair regrowth in many old men who recently started taking dutasteride for enlarged prostate issues. Maybe they regenerated their arrector pili muscles; or maybe those muscles always remained intact in spite of severe AGA; or maybe one can regenerate hair without the need for having any intact arrector pili muscles?
  • It is unclear when exactly we have a point of no return where the arrector pili muscle is largely or entirely replaced by fat and hair stops growing (either as a cause or effect). It seems like there is significant variation depending on person and hair follicle. In many cases, the arrector pili might not be entirely degenerated and replaced by adipose tissue even in areas of the scalp where one has been bald for several decades. In such cases, subsequent hair and muscle regeneration could then be possible via something like Dutasteride or Finasteride.

157 thoughts on “The Arrector Pili Muscle (aka Goosebump Muscle)”

  1. Interesting.

    No need to worry much about hair loss anymore.. So many options will be available for us in the next couple years. Thanks for the daily posts admin!

    1. If you believe all the crap, yes, and chose to ignore that we been fooled before. I dont mind people being positive but im not willing to cross the gullible line. The hype about clearly fake cures (replicel, brotzu++) is at a record high in the aga community now, its definitely not looking bright.

      1. Brotzu lotion has not materialized to date. Also, if these pili muscles cannot be revived once gone, regretfully, I believe that even JAK inhibitors would prove to be useless for MPB sufferers.

        1. Well, the jury is still out on pili, with a fairly high probability that its just a result of hairloss and not a cause. Jak is proven to not work, the straw their grasping at is that topical will be totally different from oral, and pigs grows wings if rubbed with bird seeds.

        1. Im not sceptical, im sure its hokum. Its one of those new types of alternative treatments that uses elaborate methods to maximize the placebo effect. The confidence in “newly discovered” secrets and “proprietary advanced equipment” has a strong effect on the reward centers of the brain, people love it, its very good business. Covering peoples eyes with cucumber grew fast to become a billion dollar industry and theres still room for so much more.

            1. I don’t get this either. Replicel gets a lot of hate for no real reason.

              To me it seems like it the same as Tsuji/Riken. Both take small samples from the back of your head, propgate the germs and reinject them into your scalp (theoretically) creating new hair.

              It’s the same as the people baselessly screaming that Follica and Samumed are just minoxidil. Why would they be creating these huge companies if they’re just selling over the counter drug store minoxidil?!

              Some people just don’t want a cure. They wouldn’t know what to do with their lives.

              1. If you compare replicel with riken, sorry, youre lost. Riken may be fake too but its not similar.

                You want a cure? Surely youre already on dutasteride then, since its the only cure with significant results as of now. Or youre just wasting your time waiting, is that what you call having a life? Im on dut so the idea about not knowing what to do must have come to you in front of the mirror.

  2. I think this was a good article…
    the more we understand balding and how it works, the easier it is to have a cure.

    The only thing I can say to this is, how do we know the arrector pili even has any effect on a growing scalp hair? I mean it is even called the goosebump muscle because its purpose is to make your hair stand up when you have goosebumps? Happens all the time on my arms and legs – never once has my scalp hair stood up for any reason..

  3. If true, perhaps the solution will be easier to find. Correct me if I’m wrong, but muscle is easier to regenerate than small organs?

  4. I have always believed in the significance of the erector pili muscle ever since i read the study of jak inhibitors and how they reverse the majority of AA balding patients vs AGA. Their must be some sort of relation to the muscle and the balding process. Looking at the pattern of baldness in AA where in falls out in clumps and non patterned areas and AGA which falls out in the classic receding horseshoe pattern may show that the muscle does have a crucial part in AGA hairloss considering people with muscular degeneration have a kinda overall loss in muscle mass vs spots of the muscle going weak then another spot, then another spot . A simple test shows how you can see whether or not your erector pili are intact is the chills test. If you give yourself the chills you will clearly get goosebumps on your body and even on the sides of your scalp but not on the top which has been balding for a long time, however if you have been recently balding you may notice that you still get chills in the balding parts which may show theirs still time to salvage your hair with Dut or equal treatment. Clearly the question is does AGA cause the erector pili to degenerate or does DHT cause some sort of degeneration of the erector pili which contribute to AGA, that remains the question. Unfortunately erector pili muscles are smooth not skeletol so theirs no way to really restimulate them to grow as far as i know. Maybe thats why alot of people state that theyve been getting results from adding scalp massages and laser caps to their regimen. Possible that the increase in blood flow might help to restimulate erector pili muscles that are not completely destroyed or even regenerate them back, again this is speculation but their has to be something to it. Hairs are not a one trick pony, i think multiple acenues must be addressed for a true cure and the erector pili seems like it might be one of many, but without further testing we’ll never know.

  5. The role of pili muscles reminds me with Tom Hagerty and his Scalp Exercise theory, who knows, he might be right somehow!

  6. i am using nizoral but my scalp is still itching and making stick dandruff, how can solve this problem. i started using nizoral a month ago 2 to 3 times a week. when can i see good results regarding itching and dandruff.

    1. Same problem with me… I used Nizoral 2% + Fina 5mg 1/4 of pill during 1 years 3/4 (2014-2016) = NO RESULTS… and I have again itching and dandruff.

      After, I stopped all treatment in summer 2016….. I was discouraged…

      Since 2 december 2016, I tried again a new treatment (minox 5% foam + AGAIN nizoral 2%)… 11 january 2017 = NO RESULTS AGAIN…

      I have not a AGA… I loss 99,999999% of my hair because I took bad drugs during 14 years at high doses (prozac, concerta, risperidone)…. I ceased bad drug in march 2014… but despite all the treatment (Nizo, fina, minox, t-gel, ratio-amcinonide, ratio-topisone, pramox, etc etc etc.).. the hairloss never ceased and itching and dandruff never ceased and are as intense/virulent as before.

      p.s. All my scalp is affected with diffuse + extreme miniaturization.

    2. I don’t feel the itch anymore since I stopped shampooing. For me after I shampoo I get one dat with no itching, then itch begins for another day or so and if I still doesn’t shampoo then the itching subsides and stops.

      Sounds counterintuitive I know but thats my experience..

  7. NEW EMAIL from Kyocera company (tsuji/riken/organ labs):

    “We are planning clinical research in Fiscal Year 2019 (April 2018 to March 2019) and aiming to put the technology to practical use from 2020.”

  8. NEW EMAIL from Dr.Reyk Horland (TISSUSE)

    We are actually using the our in vitro generated hair follicles twofold:
    1.)     For hair restoration purposes (Neopapillae emulating the dermal papilla of the hair follicle)
    2.)     As an in vitro screening tool for hair growth promoting/reducing substances (microfollicles including dermal papilla cells, keratinocytes, melanocytes)
    My colleague Beren Atac mainly showed the use of the model as an in vitro screening tool during her presentation. This is very well established.
    Advancing the hair restoration method on the other hand takes a considerable amount of investment (due to the necessarily strict regulations for cell therapies). This is one of the main reasons for the timeline I outlined in my previous mail.(2017/2018)

  9. Hi, we knows very little about the incidence and about everything that revolves around the arreating muscle.

    So you think well… When you get grafted … the arrector muscle is not regreted … and the hair lives its life … so …. I wonder if this muscle is really “necesary”.

  10. Hello guys.. there is news from Fidia´s Brotzu lotion.
    An official statement from Fidia declared that the tests and research about the “brotzu lotion ” will last until 2018, and that they are taking this really seriously.

    Regards ! and wish you all the best for 2017

    1. In other words it is delayed again. Originally had a 2016 release date, now it is 2018. Brotzu has already been trialing this for the last 5 years. They know if it works, they know the safety profile, etc and brotzu himself even said he doesn’t believe the lotion could be improved anymore. It is ready. But for some damn reason every time a treatment gets close, boom its pushed out AGAIN. This is a goddam joke now.

      1. In the official italian statement ( im italian ) there is no statement about release date.
        they just stated : ” research is going up to 2018″
        no month specified , no release date specified.
        they said they got thousand of inquiries and that they are working on it and always keeping in mind the amount of hair loss sufferers. sounded like : dont break our fidia balls , we are working. :)

        there could have been some problems during the research and in vivo testing. regarding effectivness , dosis.. just my 2 cents.

        not good news but not too bad either …

        1. prolonging an in vivo testing and research on humans for 12 months at least is a very expensive thing.
          they wouldnt do this if they didnt have something worth this expense.
          please think positive … I really hope all of this is gonna be solved by 2020, i have a bump on my skull… not so nice i think :/
          regards !

        2. Personally this is just my opinion… But I honestly think this press release was a desperate one. They said they have received hundreds of calls and emails that could’ve slowed done business with other clients. If anything they did this press release to try and calm everyone. If they said it worked for Androgenetic Alopecia the amount of calls and emails would just increase dramatically especially if they aren’t done researching it till 2018. And BTW when people said it said it was for Alopecia Areata did it actually say that? Or did it say AA? Cause when I first heard of hairloss when I hear AA I immediately though of Androgenetic Alopecia

      2. Brotzu tested the lotion that had PGE1. Fidia changed the lotion to have DGLA instead. That is why they had to do seperate testing. I don’t know why the lotion as been “delayed” (not really a delay considering Fidia has never announced a prospective release date in the first place). It could very well have something to do with upscaling manufacturing or issues that have arisen with producing large quantities of liposomes.

        I think it’s good news that they have finally publicly acknowledged they are even working on the lotion. I really don’t understand why everyone is losing their shit saying “were doomed” and “the lotion has been cancelled”. The overreaction to almost no news is astounding.

        I’m disappointed that we’ll have to wait longer than anticipated, but right now nothing has really changed.

  11. I’m not shocked at all about the delay. Most likely this lotion will get bought out by a competitor and will be shelved.

    One thing I have noticed a lot lately is the number of men I see daily who have undergone strip ht surgery. Older and younger guys. It’s bad enough ht suck but the fact these ht docs push strip over fue is just cruel. These docs take advantage of all patients it truly is a horrible industry. I should have been an ht doctor lol. Seems to be no rules in the scam hair loss industry. It’s like they purposely want Propecia Rogaine and ht to be the only thing available forever.

  12. Mother of god…Fidia…What have you done? There are many people angry and really disappointed with this situation…Now you understand me when I say that the industry of hair loss especially with androgenetic alopecia is really pathetic?

    Best regards.


  13. Well fidia was my last hope… There it goes.. F you hair loss… Does Brotzu have any grand daughters I can date and then ask her to talk her grandpa to make me a lotion.. Hard way but still possible…

  14. Hey everyone.

    I’m 17 years old and basically a norwood 3 at this point and I’ve been receding since 15 (but recently learned it was for real). It’s a bummer that Fidia delayed the possible release of the lotion (I’ve been following the crazy thread at HLT for a few months) and know I understand why the more veteran hairloss sufferers had their doubts.

    Just like everyone here, I really hope something will be released in the next few years. I’ll probably be a full on NW6 around 22 at the latest, but we shouldn’t let all hope die. We’re in this together guys and gals, and the future looks brighter than ever.

    And if I am indeed bald in a few years, I’ll just start selling meth around the corner in a nice oldschool RV.

    Hang in there everybody!

    1. Hey Shady, in my opinion it’s very unlikely you’re suffering from male pattern baldness at 17. Have you concidered this could be a health issue that is having an effect on your hair? I recvomend getting some bloods tested and your zinc/bit d levels looked st. It could possibly be a result of a good intolerance aswell? Dairy, gluten etc….my brother was loosing his hair at 17 and low zinc levels were the cause (found by a blood test).

      1. Hey Fonzerelli,

        That sounds possible, but the main issue I’m having is that I am thinning in the typical pattern (temples), which have gotten worse over the last year. My dad started losing it around 20 (also had aggresive MPB). As a matter of fact, I’ll be going to a dermatologist today to get a diagnosis. I hope in some way that you’re right and it’s not MPB, but the temple recession scares me!

      2. I’m also seventeen, but I believe I have miniaturization Can this come appear in anything else than MPB?

        1. I’m also seventeen, but I believe I have miniaturization Can this come appear in anything else than MPB?

          1. Have your thyroid levels checked. I started heavy hairloss at 17 in mbp pattern and always suspected something else was making it start so early, but my blood work always came back from the lab clean, also ECG came back fine with no signs of thyroid issues. I regret i didnt know more, wish i had insisted on seeing an endocrinologist before it was too late. I advice you to do that if the regular doctor cant find anything.

              1. According to all tests there is nothing wrong with me. So while my father didnt suffer aga untill age 30 i guess my form of aga came from mothers sides, my grandmas brother started losing the hair in his teens too, the genetics for early loss are certainly present in my case but young hairlossers should ALWAYS get checkup and be tested regardless of lineage.

  15. Alot of people are pissed that fidia is delaying it. If you follow the HLT thread, people are saying Brotzu himself has even commented on the delay and said he is surprised. He already mentioned in his interview that the lotion couldn’t be improved on anymore than it has been, and that he saw no reason it would be delayed. Boom. Delayed.

    Just seems like everything is “around the corner.” Since ive started balding its always the same time frame, years away. I think mjones is right. This lotion will never even make it to production – same as RU.

    1. Hi Fadi..clean up your diet. No sugary or fried foods. Wash your hair daily. Add one drop of emu oil to a quarter size amount of shampoo and use that daily when you shampoo your head. Also once a week use apple cider vinegar rinse after shampoo. Leave it for one minute then rinse off. You can also try scalp massages. Those help with dandruff. Do those for 5 minutes before showering.

    2. Fadi, get real help and real treatments. Youre not doing anything wrong, you did nothing to bring this upon yourself, your head has a medical condition that need treatment, not vinegar or anything else.

      You can safely disregard everything mjones said to you, and do not wash daily, it dries out even more and can make it worse. Sounds to me like a hormonal problem, pls get professional help.

      1. He is on real treatments. He is asking what else he can do to stop the itch. Everything I mentioned will help. You should wash your hair everyday to remove sebum and oil. Kind of gross not showering daily as your scalp sweats and collects impurities which clogs pores which causes dandruff in turn inflammation which will cause itching. Just use a gentle shampoo and not Nizoral. Niz only 2x a week.

    3. Fadi, no wonder youre still itching, the advices youre getting are ridiculous. Just search the web ok, youll see that your condition is not a joke to be made fun of like eating the wrong things…. You didnt do anything to cause it, its not your fault, now stop the nonsense “treatments” and get checked for underlying skin conditions, plus hormonal and autoimmune disorders that very often cause these things. But please dont listen to the testosterone deficient ED cases who hang here and in all the hairloss forums, they talk like old wives with their oils, seeds, vinegar(!) and what not. Of mjones had a cure he would be cured and not continue with it, now you learn from his mistakes and look for a cure elsewhere, ie in your doctor.

  16. People on HLT are worked up and acting like morons over promises they made themselves, not f**king Fidia. Fidia never promised early 2017 releasedate. Fidia finally made an official statement regarding the lotion, and in return they are getting flamed by retards. Fidia did make 1 big mistake tho. In the first statement they wrote Alopecia Aerata which they within a few hours then changed to Alopecia. So, now ppl are speculating if this actually works on AGA instead of focusing on the fact that a big pharma company made a statement about a much anticipated product.

    @Admin, Sorry bout posting off topic stuff.

    1. No but they did say that trials were to be concluded in december, and thats when brotzu had his interview and said once it is done being trialed it will be released, and he saw no reason why it would be delayed. Now the trials are going on for another full year? Brotzu trialed it for what,5 years himself already? I mean if he himself is confused as to why it has to take until 2018 now, shouldnt that tell us something? After all, he did come up with the lotion. (Thats if he even really said hes confused. You never know with the way people are with their hairloss rumors.)

    2. It doesn’t work on AGA! Brontzu is a joke and if ever released will work no better than Rogaine 2%. They out Areata because that is what they are truly focused on not AGA. They are using AGA to boost their presence in the industry. F them. Let’s focus on follica, SM, Sisheido, follicum, Histocrap, tsuji, lauster possibly Jak but I still feel they are just throwing AGA into the mix to gain publicity but hopefully I’m wrong.

    3. It was comments by Brotzu that led them to speculate this though in fairness…I think before Fidia was even in the picture. @ admin Not sorry, but please dont delete, it is dictator-ish.

  17. @mjones, thank you for taking the time to babbel up a few sentences and sum up the entire research and efficacy of a lotion being developed by a major Pharma company. Ppl want updates and when they finally get them its not good enough.

  18. Chill guys the Japanese will cure us don’t worry it’s not in their nature to bullshit like Australia or whatever … Good thing I’ve been studying Japanese banzai 2020 the year where I’ll go watch the Olympic + get myself a huge hair transplant to cover that receiding hairline xD

  19. Hi Admin haven’t posted since i wished you a Happy new year. Please don’t shoot me for this but I want to make mention of Brotzu. To my boy Mjones… You have the right to put stock in the treatments that you feel are the most viable and not to far from our reach. I agree with you buddy but I must say I have been following this hype for sometime and I am at a loss no pun intended lol. However there are studies documented in reputable Italian journals and a pharma involved it definitely seems to be legit. The fact that the released a statement for just AA is weird but what’s more weird is how they pretty much amended and put general Alopecia. At this point everyone should take the plunge and jump on topical Hasson & Wong in good faith or microdose fin until we get some more from follica. IMHO. Sorry and no more off topic stuff.

  20. With all the other treatments planning for around 2018 Fidia will course out of the circulation. Maybe they just didn’t want to market the lotion…

  21. @mjones

    What the hell do you not get about FUE vs FUT? Do some research and you’ll know exactly why FUT is still offered. Not everyone is a good candidate for FUE. It has pros and cons just like everything else. You are a fool. Maybe the surgeons “push” the strip method because of ethical reasons. Maybe just maybe some of them are actually trying to help you make a decision with your best interests in mind, even if it isn’t the most ideal one.

    Lastly show some respect and quit saying Histocrap. What have you done for the hair loss community besides recommending people rub vinegar on their heads? Have you done any research? Was it peer reviewed? Published? Put into action in a controlled trial? Have you ever made an agreement with a foreign nation to get your product released? It may work and it might not but if they read your comments, oh my what motivation that must give them to help ungrateful turds like you. Bottom line show some damn respect until they give you a solid reason not to.

    1. @ Kevin. ..Fadi asked me a question on how to relieve his itchy scalp so I helped a friend out…apple cider vinegar helps for itchy scalp as well as scalp massages. Don’t criticize me for helping a fellow hair loss sufferer out with some tips that worked for me.

  22. If Fidia is trying to perfect the lotion before releasing it I believe they are making a huge mistake. I would buy any product reasonably priced that is more effective than minox + fin. I think the best option would be for them to release the best product they can now and then release a better product in a year after more trials. This is assuming that they believe the product is safe now and are trying to find a sweet spot in concentration and dosage. Really very disappointing overall and I would love for another treatment option to leap frog past them to market some how.

  23. Kevin, spanky and Guest, I’m not even going try to justify what I wrote. Those on here who have been suffering from hair loss since 2001 like me know and understand what I’m talking about. I have seen numerous hyped up companies go into trials and have great promise to only be bought out or scrapped or delayed aka intercyrex, osh101, aderans etc these companies were blowing up all over the forums. They never showed a single picture of aga regrowth. Fidia showed AA pictures of results.why no pics of AGA? Why the secrecy?

    Histocrap deserves to be called just that until they stop fing around and get the ball rolling. How many years and delays does it take to set up a phase 2 trial in Mexico lol. Come on…anyways trash me all you want I won’t respond back to your nonsense name calling. In the end you will see bronztu lotion disappear like the rest of the scams. SM, Follica are what we should be focusing on.
    Good night!

    1. If you could even spell ‘Brotzu’ correctly it would at least confirm that you can read and do perhaps understand just a little of what you are talking about.

      One minute you contend Fidia’s hairloss product will be bought out by a competitor and then shelved, in the next breath you’re calling it a scam?

      Do you really, really know what you’re talking about, mjones?

  24. Guys this forum was once a great place for all of us sufferers to come and discuss topics properly and support each other. Recently it’s become more and more negative and aggressive, almost like politics where we have two parties – the believers and the doubters. We are all desperate for a cure yes, but being so negative about everything is simply not helping. We know that the mind affects the body, so let’s try keep our minds focused on a positive outcome. It’s not a matter of if, just when a cure is available. Hope is more powerful than doubt.

    1. False hope is worst. I seen too many hairlossers coming to forums and being fooled into nonsense treatments, and at the same time discouraged from using effective meds like Dut, and fooled into waiting for new treatments. How many times has there been promises from forums that new treatments will be out soon? A lot! And meanwhile thise who were adviced to wait and use a drop of fancy oil in the shampoo has gone bald and dut can no longer save them.

      But being negative to dut is ok, then ppl are told to disregard all the success stories and reports of no side effects, danger danger, disregard and be negative to the only proven effective treatment but be exstatic about something vague that hangs by a thin thread just outside of reach.

      Selective positivity is not negativity, i think i made my point clear, we are all negative and positive to something, no need to label those who disagree with you as negative bashers, you have your own dislikes im sure.

      1. Sogosowhat, please limit your daily commenting and especially when it comes to off-topic subjects that are unrelated to the post content.

  25. I completely agree with Jay. One of the main reasons i enjoy this site is the useful information and relevant posts but lately some comments have become childish nonsense at times with just a bunch of negativity thrown in. If you guys and girls dont have anything productive to contribute then take your worthless nonsense somewhere else like HLT forums or some other place where you guys can scratch each others eyes out. This is the one place that hasnt gone to shit and i prefer it stays that way. Dont ruin it for others who dont have your hopeless spirits.

  26. Lol brotzu and kelopesia are jokes.. they might release their crap treatment right when tsuji does.

    Shit, Follica will be out 2018 who cares about Italian lotion

    1. Follica has released just as much proof of efficacy as Brotzu has. Not sure what your point is here Egghead? I believe that Follica and Fidia will both release efficacious treatments some day, but both have basically the same “proof” at this point.

  27. @Jay @John

    That is exactly where my frustration comes from. The entitlement is disgusting and at the end of the day none of these companies owe any of us anything. So to sit and bash them over and over and over again does nothing for anybody. Repeating crap about conspiracy theories over and over again does nothing.

    mjones has done nothing but spew negativity and I’m tired of it. Hes been banned more than anyone, yet is allowed to just carry on. If anyone reads his response above and cannot see how he lacks common sense and decency is just disturbing.

    I shouldn’t have resorted to name calling as I have called out others in the past. Apologies all around. However, when you don’t get your way that doesn’t mean you should just attack someone. What kind of logic is that? Especially when they’re trying to HELP you. At the end of the day your balding head is your problem. Again no one owes you a damn thing so grow up, mind yourself and deal with it.

    I’m done here anyway so good luck to all and have a great year.

    1. Kevin and to all those who hate me…all I am going to say is just wait and see how your special fidia brontzu or however you spell it turns out. You will see that I am going to be right. I’m only against this treatment and other scammy treatments. I have high hopes for Follica, SM and Tsuji. The rest are just flaky to me. Thanks for the constant name calling too, I appreciate it. You can voice your opinion with class and maturity. No need to call me a turd, liar, negative etc. I’m a realist and most of you on here should wise up and be realistic as well or else you are going to be very depressed when these scammy treatments don’t pan out.

      1. Right about what exactly, mjones? First you portend that Fidia’s will work so well that a competitor will buy it and shelve it – then little more than 12 hours later you call it a scam say it will simply disappear.

        Either way you will be right if you bet on both sides of the argument, will you not?

        I’m still not convinced that you know what you’re talking about.

  28. Okay thanks see ya next year Kevin. Anywho could the balding gene be paralogous to the hairless ape gene and just starts expressing itself differently after dht starts being synthesized? Wouldn’t that explain like alot especially why so many people have some form of hair loss sooner or later…

      1. You can read their slides at

        Though they mention possibility to work on AGA, it is not included in their 2017 plan. This year they want to focus on AA, mainly topical delivery of JAK inhibitors.

        1. Interesting read.. judging by their timeline the AA oral won’t even be out until late 2019. I guess 1 year per phase isn’t so bad in the grand scheme of things. So… much….. waiting……..

  29. @mjones, I dont believe anybody is hating on you, im not atleast;-) If you have been following the Brotzu lotion as closely as some of us, you would know that there is good reason to believe that it could be something. Not a cure, but something maybe only a little better than Fin og Minox, which is still huge for some of us. There is just as much reason to be excited over Fidias development of the Brotzu lotion as there is over any of the treatments you mention again and again over and over.

    1. it has already been established that the source of brotzus excellence is from that forum thread and one interview with the doctor. How can you possibly know more? Its just speculations by a bunch of forum members, not facts.

      Being positive is good, being gullible not so good.

  30. My problem with Fidia is that their latest statement says hairloss can happen at any age.. I sure as hell never saw a 5 year old start losing hair because of MPB… Makes it seem like they are just addressing AA. Agggh so frustrating because the doctor has documented his success with MPB from his lotion… I think someone should be reaching out to him or an associate for some clarification.

    1. @Richieron isnt this a true statement though? Hairloss can occur at any age. It was common knowledge about 3 months ago that the lotion that Fidia is developing supposedly works on BOTH AGA and AA. So what is wrong with that statement? If the lotion works for both cases then the announcement would be consistent for both AA and AGA. That statement by Fidia changes absolutely nothing.

  31. Drink alot of botlled water, like 3 liters or more a day and your hairloss will stop.

    It’s spreading like a fire.

      1. Just try my friend. My hear didn’t fall out anymore after drinking alot of botlled water. 3 L a day is ok. I am trying to let grow it back by drinking more , but i can’t proof that now.

        Just try, it’s a bit of dissipline but it’s worth to do it.
        The story is spreading like a fire. When your body hasn’t god enough water your hair falls out, … is one of the reasons. Maybe the most important. Regards.

  32. I personally think what everyone is overlooking is that these trials are to assess safety and efficacy. Maybe they have delayed for another year because there has been some horrific side effects.

    I’d rather not be a Guinea pig….

  33. New study: The role of oxidative stress in early-onset androgenetic alopecia

    Conclusion: “We found increased oxidative stress in younger patients with early-onset AGA. There is need for further molecular studies on the role of oxidative stress in the etiopathogenesis of AGA. We also think that topical or systemic antioxidants can be promising in treatment of AGA, especially for young patients”

  34. @Red I’m going to have to agree with you. Well said your point duly noted and they in fact do cover everything with one generic blanket statement. I guess given the prior statement and then their amended statement. It seems the focus is on AA but you’re right! It’s just how they articulate it…. Just wish they threw in aga and aa effect children and men and woman of all ages however if they are intending to be vague while still givi g some sort of positive statement, then mission accomplished… For the obvious reasons they have not given too much detail with this statement.. I guess the intial statement really mindf#%/\ me ans others..

    1. @Richieron446 I can see why some might be alarmed at the initial posting of just “Alopecia Areata” in their press release, but it was just a mistake that happened through translation from Italian to English. The original Italian version of the press release made no mention of Areata, and simply just said Alopecia/general hair loss conditions.

      The fact that Fidia actually went back and corrected this error to include all types of Alopecia is a good sign that they are not focusing this lotion on just Areata. The press release actually sounded pretty optimistic to me. They basically say that they look forward to releasing a treatment that actually works, is efficacious, is safe, and is stable once their testing is complete.

      With that said, 2018 is shaping up to be a good year for us. Everyone just has to hold on for a bit longer. Better treatments are right around the corner folks.

      All the best!

  35. We all are for necessário fide say to litros but the real season we are like this is Dr. Brotzu say to much… And believe in the beps trolling us….

  36. Riken
    They will make the total solution.
    Hair multiplication. Unlimited hair.
    Stop waiting lotions… The only important thing is hair multiplication. 2018 is around the corner… Patience

    1. But………… for egghead Tsuji/Replicel/Hairclone/etc. are not effective. Egghead (all scalp affected) have not healthy crown for cloning.

  37. GREAT BLOG! SORRY FOR BROTZU. Do not worry guys. Industries are investing a lot of money in patents, clinical trials and many things that bring us closer to a new treatment. 2018 is very close. You deserve it. Just like that. There is a lot of desire to moder the pie of the industry of the hair loss industry! Hehe :)

  38. @Red I like you buddy.. Not only cuase you’re positive but you’re rational and you actually critically read and research before you commmet!!! Hell yes here is to 2018 being an amazing year for hairloss!!!

  39. Admin I have invested my time in other treatments so i was wondering what will Tsuji do for someone tha has mpb but has had ht and decent coverage but will lose ground if not taking a treatment?

      1. Wow those are mice models I didn’t know Sam was that far behind I thought they were testing humans unless I’m reading wrong I was never excited about Sam

        1. I’m pretty sure they’re from a human patient in their Phase IIa trial. I know a lot of people are sceptical about Samumed, but I’m personally excited for the presentation of the results from their completed Phase IIb trial.

  40. All I know is im tired of this. Must be nice for those who can tolerate fin and minox. My life sucks right now and there ain’t a damn thing I can do about it.

  41. 2018 is going to be awesome.
    2017 however…. doubtful. I’ll be surprised if we have any surprises this year.

    So far JAK verdict is out, it’s on hiatus another year right?

  42. What about follica? Can we expect their release in 2018? They were supposed to start their final clinical trail first Q 2017 after a delay! They have a new website so it won´t take another 2 years. What do you think?

  43. I’m kind of bummed out Acleris isn’t going to start anything with AGA till next year after they said they would start preparing trials this year. Good news is that AA will start trials. I saw someone with Areata and it’s a horrible thing to have. I hope it cures them. As for jak for AGA I felt pretty confident they would move quick on it because the science made sense. Oh well we can cross them off the list for 2020 or earlier release. I hope NASA doesn’t have a mental breakdown over it. It would have been nice to have a powerful topical that kick starts hair growth with the same regrowth potential as AA. I guess Cots was right when he said jak probably won’t work for aga. We shall see in 2018.

    1. I don’t comment on here usually, but that nasa guy was Delusional. Anyone who expects to rub a lotion on your head and re grow a full head of hair is nuts. If you still haven’t come to expect the worse case scenario when any news or new treatments come out you’re preparing yourself for a major let down. Seriously, how many times has this happened? I’d love for nothing else than a cure in 2020 but that ain’t happening people. The faster you all wrap your heads around it the better. If someone can please explain to me why 2018 will be such a good year please do so with actual information not speculation. I hate being negative about this but that’s just the reality.

      1. @Dave..thank you for commenting. If we ever cross paths I’m buying you a beer. It’s finally nice to see someone else on here who is a realist. Yes false hope us much more than negativity. I agree negative comments should not be displayed here but false hope and speculation like what nasa did gives the younger generation of mpb sufferers false information and causes them to lose more hair by not using current proven treatments.

        1. Ya their timeline definitely sucks. And nasa was way over the top with optimism. But I hardly see it as a write off just yet. My opinion is it will work on a still active follicle. Up to what degree of miniaturization it could bring back who knows. Just my opinion though.. maybe the AA topical trials will give a lil insight towards the AGA possibilities.

    2. that repunzel girl (Christiano?) started a new company with Johoda or whoever for a reason…she likely knows JAKs won’t work for AGA, otherwise why on earth would she start this new venture?

  44. hey admin

    I am taking finestride since last year
    it has reduced my hair fall to some extent but still I am getting bald. please suggest me should I switch to 0.5 mg adovart to save my hair
    my age is 26 and I am from India

  45. “Cold stimulates not only goosebumps but also hair growth.” Is this point addressed in the Aug 2020 article?

  46. Bad news from Exicure. Apparently they are in big financial trouble and have to scale back immensely.

    One point of the many measurements is the following:

    „Cessation of all R&D activities, including suspension of all partnered programs“

    One of the partnered programs was the one with Allergan.

    What do we learn from it? Even the single biggest investment (25 million) in the hair loss industry ever does not guarantee anything.

    The question is what happens with the knowledge of the research (if there ever was one)?

    Back in 2019 I believed this would be the ultimate treatment in 10 years. Was I wrong.

    1. Thats very unfortunate to hear…
      But regarding your question with what happens to the research knowledge: as far as I understand, from the initial press release regarding the partnership, Exicure was pretty much an outsource company for Allergan to handle the inital research
      “Exicure is handling the early stage work. If Allergan exercises its options on the programs, it will take charge of clinical development and commercialization and make milestone payments to Exicure”

      So I’d assume what ever has been delevoped so far will simply go back to Allergan as planned & they could in theory try again with either another partner or continue by themselves as planned, if they still want to after sinking so much money. Guess, it’s to early to pronounce it dead just yet…

  47. Hello admin
    Do you know what happened to the hair loss talk site??
    Is it shut down??
    Will they recover it??
    Do you know something about that ??

      1. That site became like rubber necking a gruesome car wreck. It used to be interesting with a cast of good, educated posters. Of late, it was more of a hang out for fear mongers, incels and fascist wannabes. Seems like all those sorts of forums are dying (I consider this a blog). Admin, I know you promote BTT’s weekly podcast but that place is a ghost town, mainly spam posts. Too bad, what I’ve always found most valuable was people exchanging what treatments worked and not worked for them. For me the here and now is more interesting than future treatments that may or may not come to pass, and are light years away. Good to learn about them though.

          1. Thanks Admin, Yoda is too old for the Tickity Tock! :-) To be clear, I consider this blog exciting and valuable.
            I responded to Melissa, hopefully she finds something of use.

            1. Hey Admin, I noticed that one of the links for minoxidil products I’d provided Melissa didn’t make it to the post. It’s not a company I’ve used at all lately, although have been considering them as I’m going back on oral dut, thus changing my topical regime. I don’t have a personal issue with the deletion, was wondering if that omission was intentional and if so, do you know something about them I don’t?

              1. Hi Yoda, your links came in strange (conjoined/half-and-half) so I had to correct the syntax. Did not delete any of them intentionally. Feel free to repost.

                Also FYI — I was reading some of your past comments and it seems you thought you got banned! You never did. I just stopped allowing automatic comment approvals for everyone several years ago, even long-time commenters. And once I changed that setting, some people’s comments went to the spam folder by default unfortunately. If you add more than one link to a comment, the plugin sometimes sends to spam too.

                1. Admin, could you remove once and for all that “spam” thing? Most of the time it’s erratic, for instance we can’t comment links on your articles. I know that your website is well-known, but there are not 100 posted comments per minute so I guess that you can manage to deal with them alone. Without that “spam” feature. Thanks for reading.

                  1. Sometimes, I get 500 plus spam comments in a day. Impossible to remove the spam detection plugin (its called Akismet). I would say that less than 1-2 comments from regular commentators go to the spam folder each week. BTW — I removed the cursing in your comment in case the plugin classified your username/IP as a spammer.

                2. Thanks Admin, no problem with not posting the minoxidil max link, I think Melissa will get the gist and I can’t vouch for them anyways. Appreciate your comments on me thinking I was banned, that was light years ago! I actually thought I was just on double secret probation. It seemed I never went into moderation, comments sailed right through. Then when I did it was when you and I were having a “spirited” back and forth about Dut causing weight gain. No problem, I now view moderation as a good thing, keeps the internet hair loss demagogues at bay. I can say I really appreciate that you’ve let some of my comments through that were critical of some that advertise on this site…that is objective and transparent!

                  1. Hey Yoda, I meant that link is ok and please do repost. It just came jumbled first time through (you might have pressed an unwanted key before enter). The four links came as three.

                    1. Got it Admin! In case it’s of interest to anyone I did just order a couple products from Minoxidilmax. My regime is changing, going back on oral dut daily, need to cut my oral minox down from 10mg, trying 2.5mg, maybe up to 5mg. Figured it would be a good time to find new topicals. I was using expensive (and a pain to refill) stuff from a pharmacy mainly due to .75 mg of dut. Since I’ll be taking oral dut daily, I can cut that back, and also up the % of topical minox. We’ll see how it goes, always changes, sometimes due to other factors.

  48. Wow – Kintor Pharma stock down 61% today. I’m not buying any more of the stock. The big drop triggered a lowball ask price I put in weeks ago. I have a good avg. cost price on it, but the stock is so illiquid – it rarely trades in the US.

  49. Is there hope for those with DUPA? My pattern loss is about a NW 3 now.. but my entire scalp has been thinned out a bit..

    Will new treatments help me?

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