Someone from Histogen e-mailed me yesterday after reading the reader comments to my last post. I will not post this person’s name, exact job title or e-mail address here since some of this blog’s readers are nutjobs who will probably stalk the said person! The e-mail contents, however, are important and pasted below:
Thank you for mentioning Histogen and HSC on your hair loss blog. We appreciate your consideration of our product. I visited your blog today and noticed that there was some confusion about the trial photos included in Dr. Gail Naughton’s Stem Cell Summit presentation. I was hoping to clear this up with you and that you could disseminate the information to your readers.
3 clinical studies of HSC have been completed: a Pilot study, Phase I/II study, and a Physician Sponsored study with Dr. Ziering. As some of your readers pointed out, the photos from the Pilot study are from 2009. However, the photos from Phase I/II and Dr. Ziering’s study are more recent. In fact some of the photos from Dr. Ziering’s study were introduced for the first time at the 2016 Stem Cell Summit in Boston. Histogen continues to be focused on developing this revolutionary new treatment and looks forward to beginning the next stages of clinical trials.
It would be great if readers who post comments to this blog post maintain some civility in case this Histogen employee who e-mailed me comes back to read the comments. Pertinent questions might get answered if we are lucky.
182 thoughts on “Histogen Responds to Blog Reader Comments”
Because things happen outside of a company’s control (we also have to brace for the potential that it doesn’t work as effectively as they say it can). Look, I’d love for Follica to work great and be out in 2 years – it very well could be. All I’m saying is I won’t expect it to be out that soon.
The “member” Hemo post this in HLT:
Look at Piloscopy – that should’ve come to market already but they’re still tweaking the tool’s design and have yet to finish clinical trials. Obviously different circumstances and a more complex procedure, but things happen. I’m not really going to keep debating since I can’t predict everything that can go wrong, but you can almost guarantee that something will get in the way.
Ok something will get in the way? i DON’T THINK SO…HEMO…
Dear blog readers, I have mentioned this before and will repeat here. Some of your comments automatically go into the spam folder even after your first comment has been approved (usually you only need approval for the first comment so this is odd). Some reasons why this could be happening (I am guessing):
1) You keep changing computers when posting, or keep changing your username, or keep changing your e-mail (note that you can and should leave the URL/website entry box blank when filling out a comment).
2) You use curse words in the post.
3) You add too many links in a post (sometimes even one link is flagged by the software). I am okay with your adding as many links as you want, but sometimes the spam software then sends your comment into the spam folder.
I try to check the spam folder once a day, but sometimes there are 50 messages in there, 49 of which are spam and 1 of which is legitimate! I bet I often miss that 1 legitimate comment and it then gets deleted automatically after several days by the spam software.
So if you are a regular poster and any of your comments do not show up immediately, please remember the above suggestions.
Admin, Thank you for this extremely informative website. Another thing that I am interested in knowing – they said they will try to release histogen sometime in the next few months (at least by 2017) in Mexico and a few foreign countries. Could you please look into an update on this?
Sorry admin…but i think the comment of this “member” was important. Sorry for the off-topic.
Great Blog. IMO Histogen will be a nice treatment for MPB: prp on sterioids. That’s good.
Hey Paul my comment was not meant for you!! It just came through after yours.
X : hope hope hope i put wrong smile. Happy to read that message
I hope this histogen employee reads my post: please make hsc available next year! Better yet make it available in the USA next year:) I have always been supportive of hsc.
“In fact some of the photos from Dr. Ziering’s study were introduced for the first time at the 2016 Stem Cell Summit in Boston. ”
where can we see theses photos?
Read the latest presentation.
2008 trial are subjet S1027 photos from 2009 /2010
2012 trial are subject S1016 and s1018
I only wish to see the persons in Page 17 and 18 today. For me that is my proof of validation of the drog/tratment.
Not exactly, The employee of histogen have made a little mistake. The photos from Dr. Ziering’s study were introduced for the first time at 9Th World Hair research in Miami in November 2015).
Not going to lie.. When i read that you said you wouldn’t release name or email of Histogen employee because some of the blog readers on here are total nutjobs I literally laughed out loud. It’s funny cause some of these people are nuts
Nice that they read this blog (and hopefully also the forums).
Admin, if you are communicating with Histogen (or they read this and want to respond), there were some questions that I think they should address:
1. Most of the critics of HSC are pointing to bad photos with what is claimed to be a “comb-over”, different angles etc. Dr Zierings involvement probably doesn’t help. Why not publish more photo evidence from different test-subjects?
2. Why can’t they initiate a phase 3 trial in the US if the first trials were successful? If it is the cost of the trial and lack of funding, then why not have known users in the hairloss community undergo a small trial with progress documented on popular forums/blogs and go for crowd funding?
3. If they do have funding, why isn’t phase 3 trial initiated?
It’s not like I don’t believe Histogen have a good product in HSC, but these are valid questions from the hairloss forums and I do think they would had easier time getting funded if the trust in the product and team was good.
I guess we will find out soon enough, whether they answer these questions directly or not. I wish them all the success in the world as I guess their worst critics also do.
Thank you for putting together a great blog full of useful information. Your doing an awesome job man. Keep it up!
Unfortunately, I think it’s the nature of the beast for Internet commentors to be predominately negative, half crazy, and generally unaware of the effort that others put in. Check out the comments on YouTube vids… More of the same. I wouldn’t let a knucklehead behind a computer rattle you.
You are providing a tremendous service and I am so grateful you take the time to do this!
Thanks a billion!
It brightens my week to come on here and see positive posts about histogen and follica.
Hellouser has told me on HLT that Histogen is beginning their phase 3 trials in July.
My question is:
In Gail’s interview with HelloUser, she said that this treatment was more effective for older people. Would Histogen’s treatment be effective from someone like me who is young 20’s and thinning/early-stages of baldness?
Are we expecting a faster release outside of US or will things go on market simultaneously? I’m kinda lost in this fda shit
This is why i keep saying Histogen is legit and you should respect what they are doing . What other hairloss company would take the time to do this? There are no combovers or camera tricks with them , just alot of people on here trying to spread negativity. If you dont see hair growth in even the first photo , its because you chose to not see it . Remember they are calling it a treatment , not a cure !!! This company has been very transparent for along time now , not the typical actions of a company looking to market a snake oil .
Admin, I had high hopes for Histogen, but they are mooving their timeline every year.
Interesting, in the last posts comments section.. Rev said a Yale study promoted the idea that absent fat layers are in missing in balding scalps.
Isn’t Kerastem focused on reinjecting the scalp layer with fat or just fat cells? Beginning to believe there is not just one trick here, it could take multiple treatments from different companies to get the right result. I remember reading someone tried it, they had no results.. but perhaps they also need something to kick start and make new follicles?
Say go for Kerastem first, then treatment from follica and then some JAK/HSC treatment? Then just regular exercise, scalp massaging and cardio to get the blood flowing into the scalp. I’d be so interested if some of these companies started talking to each other and perhaps coming up with a trial for a combined cycle of treatments.
I’m just stating, i wasn’t convinced by Kerastem.. going based on the photo i was unconvinced. Does anyone have news on them?
I would be interested in hearing a ball park figure for how much histogen is likely to cost if it is proved effective.
Unfortunetly, any new treatment that hits the market in the couple of years to come will be expensive, as these companies know that there are desperate bald guys who are willing to pay big money for a new decent treatment, they will take advantge of it.l for sure. It will be not something accessible (economically speaking) for everyone.
And this new treatment will only have price drop when another company releases a new and a better treatment.
If we are lucky enough, histogen will be the first to hit the market and the next one will be Follica, wich will force histogen to drop the price of their treatment, as we all expect the follica’s treatment to be better and more effective.
At the same time, considering a good HT can realistically cost <7K and a treatment will require monthly investment over a long period of time, I think the price will still need to be somewhat realistic, otherwise people will just go for an FUE session which, tbh, will probably have better chances of delivery decent results.
The first effective treatment to hit the market will be the winner. AGAIN EXISTS A HUGE DEMAND FOR MPB. PEOPLE AREN’T HAPPY WITH PROPECIA AND MINOXIDIL!! :)
Histogen was $1-2k i think or maybe that was Replicel..
Which raises the question – Will it be more effective than PRP? And how often do you need treatments?
I really hope that if this does come to market, that people really demand solid evidence of its efficacy before they shell out thousands for it. I’m just so suspicious that this is over hyped snake oil from people trying to make a fast buck…
Fast buck? This company has been working on this since 2007.. It’s 2016 if they were a snake oil and wanted to make a fast buck it would’ve been released by now. Personally I don’t think it’s a scam, scam products usually come out of nowhere.. This company is spending money clinical trials etc.. All you pessimistic people that just don’t want to believe anything will ever come out or will ever be legit go shave your heads and move on.. This blog is for people that want to have hope hence the “hairlosscure2020” if you don’t believe that anything will work go make your own blog “hairlosswillneverbecured” and have all your pessimist friends go on and talk about how nothing will ever happen
Actually fairly optimistic about lots, just not convinced by histogen.
Replicel/Shiseido expects their treatment (they call it a cure) to cost approx $900:
I also get the info regarding these two mixed up.
While we would like to see more photos of patients treated with HSC (!) we must admit at the same time that Histogen has been one of the most transparent firms in this industry so far.
Again, photos of new patients or more recent photos of the same patients we have seen earlier, would calm down the masses and give Histogen the trust of the hair loss community.
Hopefully we will have some great news by the end of this year, whether be Follica or Histogen.
Maybe Histogen isnt a scam as some people say, they might have a treatment that works very good, but it could be more effective on some people than others. Its hard to develope a treament that can reach its full potential on everyone equally.
Call me one of the nut jobs posting here but I just took another look at the Histrogen pdf presentation and it looks like something made by a child. The 2016 photos must be some of the scalp close ups which does not prove anything. I’ve said this over and over and I dont mind repeating: How hard is it to take before and after photos of a patient with buzz cut?? They cant produce simple convincing evidence = they dont have a product. Some random Histrogen intern emailing admin does not make them more reliable.
Sorry for not joining the crowd of cheerful Histrogen supporters.
Lol.. come on the guy with the so called combover had no hair on his crown and temples.. Literally there looked like there was 800 hairs there.. after the year it looked considerably more.
Besides, it’s upto the patient. They can’t just go a shear them like sheep, they have everyday lives to get on with.. are you going to suggest they buzz cut the women too?
I am an experienced biotech scientist, working in the field of hair loss, and can assure everyone here that Histogen is NOT following a rational path towards drug approval.
They have raised $24 million and still haven’t even started the Phase 1/2 process in the US. The physician sponosored study- and I use that term “physician” loosely for a non-MD practitioner of hair transplants- is NOT sufficient for FDA standards. Most companies avoid these since they are not well-controlled and cannot be used to support moving to Phase 3 studies to support product licensing (approval).
So then why is Histogen and Ziering doing these studies?
I hate to say this but suspect that it is for the purpose of enticing investors with access before FDA approval. If that’s NOT true, then Histogen should be happy to confirm that NONE of Ziering’s subjects have a financial connection to Histogen.
@Breezy I like your optimism but if you wanna fool yourself be my guest. I wont comment more on Histrogen, its a complete waste of time.
guys, who is in the right mind will take such photos if u sure u ve the cure or something close. I agree with Spanky.
Lets just suppose for a minute that Histogen actually worked and made nw6 to nw4 in 3-4 months right? just suppose it did … I would even pay patients to buzz cut their hair. then I can show whole world that my product is for real.
again to this cheerful crowd, if u show a clear evidence of ANY product making nw6 to nw4 in 3 months, I tell you.. u dont have to worry because ur phone wont stop ringing. investors will be queuing at your doorstep..
how do you think Sammumed is worth billions?
guys please and please.. ignorance is bliss i agree but lets just be realistic here… like i said i have this evidence, I would even post this to BBC, CNN and all other press… dont be naive…
This is why snake-oil salesmen have thrived for thousands of years. You guy – even the smart ones – will believe anything when it comes to hair loss. We need clear pictures in scientific settings with all the variables the same. Not only would a company with a working product provide them, they would provide multiple cases and they would be anxious to do so. Having said all this, would I go to Mexico and let a stranger mess with the cells on my head to try to deal with baldness? Probably.
well said about histogen, not even worth talking about that company….complete waste of time….guys you dont even need combover…i can get full head with toppik…that picture im pretty sure they have used fibres…if they really had those kind of results…they wouldn’t wait for anyone….anyways some intellectuals in this blog wanna believe…. guys even mouse community doesnt believe in histogen….have u seen any before after mouse pics…..no
i bet in jak or anything that comes from angela… even brotzu…he has something…
@farhan – then make your own blog. Your problem would be solved.
@admin – thx for being responsible with the company’s info. Emotions tend to run high here and I’ve seen various calls to action to bombard the emails of the researchers. Talk about a way to really make someone’s life miserable.
You guys crack me up , you think Thorn , who has not done a damn thing besides run there mouth , is more legit then Histogen ? You have a company spokesman come here on this website and address concerns about there product and it still is not good enough . Im sorry but i think Histogen is worth talking about and is at the current moment, the best shot we have at an effective treatment in the next couple years . Hopefully thorn will post your much needed pictures for you to speculate over !
You are right Erich. Histogen will be the next treatment for MPB. That’s the truth. Other companies need to work more.
Any luck with hellouser?
No response as of yet , as a matter of fact i have not seen him active much.
this is not your blog buddy… do you know what blog even means…its called freedom of speech..i have my own views….you dont need to put your finger in everything….
I’m sorry Farhan but no one cares for your pessimistic attitude. Isn’t your father a rich guy. Why don’t you have him find you a cure? Or at the very least, a shrink?
What do you mean “they wouldn’t wait for anyone” lol you think they’d force people to get injections illegally?
Because Thorn Medical is a limited company registered in the UK, all its finanical returns, share statements and director appointments are available to view on the British Governement’s Companies House website:
no no no i wont be so critical on histogen either. look …. its also very early stage of clinical trials. probably they are extremely busy with fine-tuning their formula.
we can not be harsh on them just because they are being very transparent. having said that, I also believe photos show nothing so far. But it doesnt mean they had no capacity to further develop their product.
last but not least, they are smart guys.. I dont think they will ever launch the product if results are like those photos… u can count on that..
actually thats why all these companies either stop funding or decide not to continue with their treatment.. because they see they dont have any cosmetically proven evidence to show or offer to the end users
I’m more interested in SM, Bronzu, and of course my favoriteFollica. I will not cross of histogen just yet. Their data looks good and let’s see if they release new photos in the coming monthd. Waiting for a pucture of bronzu lotion for Aga.
Anyone find a news on the conference christisno and cots presented at yrsterday? Admin any news on that?
What about follicum?
Did you notice that Dr. Tsuji only respond to the questions about skin from IPS cells?
Guys, why do you confuse these two breakthroughs? That last interview could be posted on skinforburnvictims2020.com
It is such a misunderstanding.
Admin, if you can just ask Dr. Tsuji about hair regeneration method which is explained on his website and on youtube (translated by replicel).
What do you think? Just look at it logically…
And yes this guy is my IDOL. Cure will come only from this knowledgeable person.
Please reread my post Lewandowski. I asked him many questions about his hair work, but he chose to send that file of FAQs since he has been bombarded with questions about his latest skin (with growing hair in it) work. He must be insanely busy at present.
So you confirm that he decided to be secretive about hair.
Feel Good that Histogen emailed you Admin. Congrats to your tremendous efforts.
But one thing he even dont write a single line about his efficacy or result of hsc. He just told dont be rough in cmnts. He should tell us that DONT WORRY HSC WORKS. by the way i expect more details from him in comming days…
Mjones I responded to you in the last thread fyi.
Hey what’s up Tom. Yeah I’m not going go to do any prp or ht anytime soon. I’m hoping bronzu will come out next year and that will be able to thicken up my hair and grow some back. I will reach out to cots this summer if I can get an appointment with him. I’m sure he will have one of his other dermatologists see me since he is probably busy with follica. I will keep you guys updated
Admin , what is your opinion of Histogen as a company, and or , product ? I ask only because it would be nice to hear a leveled out opinion for the posters on here that maybe don’t know what to believe about the company .
Admin, the next time you email Tsuji will you please ask these questions in addition to whatever other inquiries you have?
1. Has he solved his obstacle with expanding the dermal papilla cells with the incorporation of Wnt-10b or any other method?
2. Has he solved is obstacle of expanding the epithelial bulge cells? Or has he observed recent studies showing wnt-3a has the ability to partially maintain these cells during expansion.
3. Has he figured out a way to make hair consistently erupt without the use of the nylon thread guide from his 2012 publication in Nature.
Please add these as they are the last critical obstacles he needs to solve before his treatment can be taken to clinical trials. If he answers these questions, they would surely be worthy of a full post because they represent the only potential permanent cure for hair loss in the near future.
Why do you think tsuji will answer him ? Cmon man !
It is simple. He has ace in the hole. Just wait for happy announcement.
More in reply to your previous post, I found some interesting things in the puretech pdf:
“..but TCP enhanced hair growth to the same degree with or
without that particular drug, and therefore the study did not meet its primary endpoint.” (p.104)
So wounding with a particular drug did not enhance hair growth, which drug then? On the same page is a table stating a patent filing date of 2008:
“Fibroblast growth factor-9 promotes hair follicle regeneration after wounding”
Can I conclude wounding followed by a fgf9 does not result in significant regrowth? Further on p.104:
“Follica’s hypothesis was further strengthened when a third party academic group, working independently of Follica, published positive results using a form of TCP and one drug Follica plans on adding to TCP in the future”
Aha! some group found a drug that does show good results in combination with TCP. From Admin’s post I understand that they will develop their own dermaroll/injector thingy, which (to my suprise) is being done by Replicell also:
The compound they tried was Lithium Gluconate. It was mentioned in a Puretech company report from last year:
“One of these studies demonstrated that skin disruption alone was safe and generates new follicles as well as new hair, but did not achieve its primary endpoint as the chosen investigational compound (lithium gluconate 8 percent gel) did not further enhance the effect. A separate clinical study, published by third-party academics, indicated that the combination of skin disruption and an approved hair-growth compound, minoxidil, showed a 4x enhancement versus the efficacy of the compound alone.”
@mjones please the link of greek guy used natural topical
Here you FADI
Here is the forum thread for it if you want to read all 200 pages of it lol
jesus dude….. well the pics look good.
mjones your rich you should buy me that stuff and i’ll take b/a pics for u ;) lol
Haha man if I only knew where to buy all that stuff I would buy all of us it and start derma rolling. The positive thing about this is that derma rolling works. Proof from this amateur who used all the topical and his picture are totally legit. He got great regrowth, not cure but definitely doesn’t look bad of hair trimmed short. Now just imagine what cots follica will do with their advanced techniques and topical formulation. It will be 10x more regrowth than this dude is the pics.
@mjones thank you, you are very important to this blog do not leave
Thank you fadi. :)
anyone know where I can buy a dermaroller? Want to do some testing myself…
If you can afford it, the derminator is better.
– Wait so the protocol that Follica found that worked better with their own protocol was Minoxidil? We know Minoxodil + wounding brings results, but they’re putting their weight behind their protocol that didn’t work/limited results + minoxidil? How do we even know their protocol and device does anything? Would love to find out more about this protocol/drug they’re using with Minox.
Histogen, damned if you do damned if you don’t. People like Farhan, Spanky, Susana and another guy simply come in here to be pessimistic souls. The only company to this day that has presented data on AGA with photos from their own trials and sponsored Physician trials and they get slammed for it. This is all whilst people are rubbing 10 different topicals in their scalp and running a dermaroller over their heads. Promoting kelopescia, Brotzu and Follica which all sound promising but show no data, no trials for AGA and limited photos. Complaining about paying people to shave their heads when their hair is precious to them and money for trials is expensive as it is. Histogen is a professional and transparent company from the outset, if you don’t want the treatment, the photos look rubbish to you and the data looks rubbish to you then don’t get it.
This is the data, there are slides, there is numbers and there are photos http://www.histogen.com/applications/hsc.htm . Beginning to feel people are expecting to see photos like this:
Guy walks in after being completely bald and comes out the following week with a headfull of hair and his hair line back. Honestly, get a grip. The Histogen data is honest, the photos match the data and when people complain about photos from 2009 they actually spend time to message the admin to correct the slurs against their trials by telling FACTS.
Honestly, it is so boring reading the Histogen bashing. People just repeat what they read from the idiots on the forums instead of formulating their own opinion by thinking about what Histogen is showing. They’re quick to jump behind any new company that hasn’t proven anything but bash the company that has proven something.
You’re all jokes.
Honestly you’re all like headless chickens, you run from one company to the other without a clue.
Mjones has even done a u-turn on Histogen, he doesn’t bash them and he doesn’t say it’s the best treatment out there. He is like everyone else that is normal, wants to see it released and see more information. The rest of you need counselling.
Who is saying that Histogen is the best treatment? Are we reading different blogs?
@bob, thanks man, didnt know that it was Lithium Gluconate.
see.. this is the language of kerastem and okyanos, etc fat derived stemcells and kerastems front page already have before and after pics of that technology and they are absolutely not breath taking results…
the only reason why I presume thorn medical was different is because the “10% of follicles survive” quote implying cloning. If thorn is not cloning terminal folliclar bulbs then I would presume they are a scam. I’m not hating on stem cell clinics but kerastem and this dubai stem cell company are not going to provide a full blown cure judging by the language and b/a pics
your right mjones, i doubted follica too soon.
You don’t know what the user took? Pretty sure the paragraph at the top of the blog page 1 is his regimin?
i wish histogen the best luck i don’t think it’s “the cure” but i would defintiely buy treatment for myself in international waters away from “the law” tomorrow if i had the chance. lol
admin what is your opinion about tlr3 signal and Louis Garza science i think we should contact him. maybe an interview via email will be nice idea
Hey Mjones, here is what that guy took (first huge paragraph on page 1 describes how and when he took it and various links to scientific articles that he used as reasonable conclusions.)
L’Oreal Professionnel Serioxyl Denser the Hair 90ml
Depakine – valproic acid
Aloe vera + xalatan
Nature’s Secret Turmeric Golden Cream
Jeunesse LUMINESCE Cellular Rejuvenation Care Serum
Castor oil (Deltracin has it)
Black cumin seed oil
Mentha piperita Oil
Leontopodium Alpinum (Edelweiss) extract
Selenium, Taurine, Glycene, Vitamin E
Jarrowsil (activated silicon)
google chrome translate
Thanks egg head. I am fluent in Greek and read all of it. This guy must not be working because he used these topics on different days and during different times during the day lol. He got great results.
For those of you bashing follica, take a look at the Greek guy derma rolling with topical results. This is an amateur version of what follica will do. They have a treatment guys. They even said it will grow 100 cm2 of hairs. Why is everyone bashing follica when they just said it can grow more hair than any other treatment. Breezy is right, most of you guys are expecting a full blown cure. Newsflash it will never happen! Cures don’t exist! Treatments do! 100cm2 hair coverage, matched fue and histogen could very well provide cure like hair density for many. Cots is funded by a large company, research from one of the best universities in the world and he has been soley focused only on AGA. What more do you guys need. A hand job from cots haha. I would suggest we focus on Follica, SM, Histogen, Sesheido( if they are still in business), JAK and my little gem Follicum. Tsuji sounds like a brilliant guy but waiting till 2028 for any treatment from him is just stupid for any of us to wait for. Plus he is focusing on skin with hair not just hair. So who knows what direction he will take. Focus on stuff that matter in the present and near future like what the blog says, Hairlosscure2020,not 2028.
Thank you admin for all your hard work and bringing me hope when I am feeling down about my hair loss:)
I’m not really interested in hearing anything about “injections” whether it’s PRP or some magical sauce like kerastem/histogen/ and everyone else on that bandwagon.
They all show the same cherry-picked “results”. Yes they are good, but we have to remember out of everyone who got these treatments, the photos they show are the very very very best. And even then the photos are only minorly impressive.
Yes and thats whay uses the same photos again and again and again. But ppl believe things that need to believe so…. Lets hope for Good News in future
adispose stemcells are the new PRP
What happened to that Korean study with adipose stem cell injections. That Korean dude grew back an assload of hair. Remember that study from a few years ago. It was really impressive! Why can’t they repeat that treatment ?
I dont know. Places offer it all over the world (just like PRP) and yet we don’t see anybody on the forums championing it.
Yeah I’m not impressed with any prp treatment. I haven’t seen any awesome growth. Looks like it’s all photo shopped before and after pics. It might thicken your hair I don’t know.
link of this study mjones
mjones – why don’t you think follica will be a cure? If it can create 100 follicles per cm2 then isn’t that basically a cure? Do you not think these will be ‘real’ hairs that can survive on their own?
Boag, it’s hair growing from a mpb zone of the scalp so I would assume it would be affected by dht. So you would probably need to be on that topical cots is creating. The average cm2 of hair on our scalp is 300cm2. So it’s not a cure. Good coverage but not full blown density. These are all assumptions I’m making. It could very well be real hairs that won’t miniaturized but cots is developing an at home kit so I’m assuming that will be used for upkeep after you go in for the main treatment at a follica licensed doctor or clinic.
I don’t think 300 is the average….
You can get the appearance of coverage at 45-75 cm2
75-150 is more than enough to put MPB thoughts behind you forever. 300 is only for zero DHT mexicans
Pradeep Sethi, Hair Restoration Surgeon
On an average, an adult human scalp contains 100,000 follicular units in total. In baldness, there is already 50% loss of follicular units in the bald looking area. On an average the density of a non bald scalp is 80-100 follicular units per square cm. This density varies from person to person.
Hair transplantation can hide the baldness in single sitting, but it cannot provide the natural density in one session. In hair transplantation, doctors can plant 25-35 follicular units (FU) per square cm, which is much less than the normal density, though this much density can hide the baldness with artistic planning of the grafting. For normal density, a second sitting of 25-35 follicular units (FU) per square cm is required. Sometimes, a third sitting may be required for natural density.@Practical Hair Density
No matter how many ht you get it will never look thick and normal unless you clone unlimited hair. This ht doc is an idiot. 3 ht will give you normal density. Bs. I have never seen a nw7 get 3 hts and look to have thick density.
Does he specify how many hairs are in a follicular unit? Wikipedia says it can be 1-4 hairs so this surgeon’s post is essentially useless. From what I’ve read, the natural density is around 200 hairs per cm^2.
Thank you PTBA for backing me up.
mjones’ opinion isn’t very helpful, as he is basing his opinion on bad math and no facts.
Hi fman, sorry if you don’t think I’m being helpful. I don’t see you do anything except complain. Do you have any connections with university of Pennsylvania? I don’t think you do. All the info I provided is from cots article so it’s legit. As for my math, it’s quite accurate. I have checked numerous sources and a normal dense head of hair is 300cm2. 100 grafts could mean single unit, double or triple as all grafts are different. If it’s double or triple which most ht doctors use then you are looking at 300 hairs per cm2.
Natural hair density is 200 hairs per cm^2 for Caucasians, who have the highest average density.
Not sure where you heard 300 hairs per cm^2.
It was like 200 for dark haired Caucasian men and 300 for blonde. It was between. 200 300 cm2. I’m happy with 200cm2 haha closer to 100cm2 which is thicker coverage
was too harsh sorry
M jones you seem to be gaining popularity lol…listen why wait for the summer to make your appointment with cots staff? You should make the appointment now so you can have the appointment in the summer, not fall. Please find out if there will be a topical besides minox that they will want us to use alongside the device? A lot of us cant use minox at all. Go do it bro. Stop putting it off.
Hi tom, yeah minox sucks I’m on it now for 16 months. Still losing ground and it made me thin out in other areas where I wasn’t thinning. Totally acceleration of mpb. Each month goes by and my hair line is getting eaten up. I highly doubt he is only using minox. It’s probably minox, with a pgd2.
guys lets start the greek miracle
mjones i think laser comb with dermarolling sound good.
Dunno what a lasercomb will do for you.
I have a doubt guys….say any new treatment like JAK or brotzu started working….what will happen to transplanted hair…will hair grow underneath the transplanted hair too…. admin what do you think….
Hey guys, yes I will make an appointment with him this week hopefully get something lined up this summer. Two years ago I called his office and administrative assistant told me he wasn’t seeing new patients anymore and focusing only on research. I got a letter last fall from University of Pennsylvania saying that my current dermatologist Susan Taylor has now join cots team. So if I can get with cots it will be great.
No I think once you transplant hair on the scalp the existing follicles gets destroyed and replaced with the ht follicle you transplant. Jak or bronzu will just stimulate follicles around the ht hairs. That’s what I think
Way to step up mjones
I’m rootin’ for Tsuji
We will grow cloned hairs before the next decade is up
Too long for tsuji. We need our hair back this decade
The good thing is that we all will be nw0 some day. Hoping he overcame his problems with culturing. Best case scenario 2022.
Something that I’ve been thinking about… Will the topical finasteride product really work ?
I mean if Fin effect is lowing down the DHT level, how putting it over our head make that effect ? DHT is something internal. Fin doesnt have any direct effect on hair folicles. It seems weird to me, Im skeptical.
The JAK inhibitors are different, they have direct effect on hair folicles, so a topical product makes totally sense, but topical fin ? Im not sure it will be as effective as taking a pill. If so, then it will be great news for us all, since all the side effects will be dramatically reduced.
Nobody is talking about lauster huh? He is working under the radar you know ;) and he may be ahead of tsuji !
Lauster better make some noise because he has been forgotten. Plus I heard he stopped his research due to funding in Berlin. Either way this guy has been working on hair loss since 2000. Nothing but research
Well grey hair cure might happen before baldness. http://www.newsweek.com/cure-gray-hair-vitiligo-mice-454087
That is a good news. White hair is not easy to accept as well as baldness !
I’m balder and more grey than my father who is 2 times older.
They said that kelopesia deals with grey hsir too…
in short, none of the above mentioned treatments are good enough to be launched. no good photos so far…
but you know it is better this way… At least there is no more BS.. market is very mature now.. almost everyone knows only fin and minox can do something on your hair… likewise companies will never ever launch a product with mediocre results..
@danitello. People aren’t happy with Minoxidil and Finasteride….Both have poor results a lot of terrible side effects. Exist a huge demand for a new treatment for MPB. :)
For men, I don’t see that being an issue. As long as I have a full head of hair, I am kind of excite to go grey.
of course we want the cure or that makes us all NW1 at least… however lets be honest, i havent seen any single photo that gave me this promise..
A lot of speculation like we cured the baldness like Replicel .. but now they are all silent.
I see replicel price which is around 700-800 usd if i remember correctly. it immediately signals out it wont do a thing on your hair. if u really make up something of a cure like, then it would be costly .. i would say even 10 or 20grand for the treatment
u can judge it just by looking at the price
I dont think follica claim to have found the cure, did they ? They just seem to be confident about the effectness of their treatment, wich is a good sign.
I think we should be a bit more patient. Some of these companies already officially published that they will have new trials by july/august. We will eventually have some big news (positive or not) in the next months. Lets just wait and see.
Agreed with Donatelo. Replicel seems way to cheap to be a full cure. It’d cheaper than prp which is worrisome.
For all the following reasons combined, I am telling you that no treatment should ever cost more than 10K
Firstly, there are proven treatments that work well without side effects in the majority of guys….minox, fin or even both will cost less than 50 dollars per month…
Secondly, HTs which deliver genuinely good results are coming way down in price to the extent that it is actually cheaper to get one than spend 5 years on Fin…
Thirdly, the hair loss market is such a great market because it is so huge, introduce a huge price, you alienate the majority of the market. Do you think you will recover R&D costs by selling <2k units per year to celebs and top earners?
Finally, Hair greed will compete with cash greed…you have hair greed just now, but I bet with a 3k graft FUE you would get on with life quite happily, and if baldness progressed in 10 years…by then the cure will be cheap, or you get another HT, or you just don't care. No matter what NW you are, 20K is always something you can spend much better on more important things, it will always be weighed up and considered.
I'm aware there are still guys who will fire out 20K dollars on HTs in this day and age, if they have it, good for them. But a treatment which has undergone millions of R&D investment will have to be accessible, otherwise it shoots itself in the foot.
If Follica truly has the ability to generate 100 hairs per cm^2 (that eventually all go terminal with the administration of drugs), they have officially found a functional cure for MPB. No one will ever look at that density and think you are bald or even balding. If they are being honest, go ahead and breath a sigh of relief because you’ll never have to lose your hair. I’m surprised this hasn’t generated more excitement.
Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m not too excited about it doesn’t seem like anything new. People have already been doing dermarolling + minox.
This will be more advanced than kitchen sink dermatolling and minox that forum posters have been doing. So don’t get discouraged by it. They claim 100cm2 of hair and that is a solid number. Listen to the data .
where can i see their statement about 100 hair per cm2? i dont think it is true.. because this would be basically the cure..
Hey donatello, one of the forum members posted the follica pdf presentations on this post that shows this information. I think it’s in this post at the beginning.
Will follica only work on slick bald scalps or can you use it on areas with existing hair?
Great question. Also, would the treatment jeopardize the areas with existing hair?
Stem cells technology will be the cure. But not in this decade. Best case scenario 2023-2025. Sorry guys.
However there will be treatments: cb, brotzu, folica, histogen, maybe replicel.
And 2040 gene therapy lol. Not for us :(
Do you have a P.h.D? Don’t go around saying stupid stuff. Go read about Moore’s Law and the recent advancements in regenerative medicine. What really irritates me are idiots like you that believe just because you read a few blogs, you’re suddenly an expert.
Calm down. My post is optimistic. But listen. Only 4 years to 2020… Clinical trails last at least 5-7 years. Tell me how it can be possible to see full cure nw7–>nw0?
Clinical trials are abridged in Japan for stem cells. Treatments can become commercialized after phase II, meaning it would shave off about two or three years from the average US trial timeline.
haha he is just a kid. dont be harsh on him more than what hairloss does.. otherwise he wouldnt put his nickname lewandowski :)
Thank you grandpa ;)
And what is stupid in my opinion?
What about Kelopesia? any news?
Is this the Korea study on adipose stem cells?
Doesn’t look awful, some thickness added definitely which is key for thinning hair. I think this kind of treatment needs to happen early when you’re thinning and receeding. Not when you’re NW 5-6
Yeah it looks really good for adipose. I wish it constantly worked that well. It would save my ass right now. Rogaine and Propecia ain’t doing shit no more for me:(
Isn’t this exactly what Kerastem is?
That might be available in Spain soon, but they have it available in a few places. Maybe you can try it?
@mjones i have dermarolling device how will i use it?
I have never dermarolled before FADI. Not too sure. YouTube it. There are people there that show how
admin make an interview with Louis Garza
Thanks yoda! Very interesting.
admin do u know what is the differance between our hair and those http://cordis.europa.eu/project/rcn/193313_en.html
Interesting yoda, but I have not looked into it.
Our beloved and best admin in the world…do you think you can get interview with Fidia pharma who are making the Brotzu lotion.
In my emails to fidia they said that they are in trials and couldnt give any launch date or info regarding the efficacity of the product compared to the current ones….
Something is bothering me with Histogen?There are millions of balding people in the US alone not to mention the world. As far as I know, neonatal cells are very limited in supply then how are they going to keep up with the demand of it?
There is a very high supply of neonatal cells… They use foreskins to extract neonatal cells.. Babies are born everyday the supply is very high
I now have a star next to my name… because I’ve decided that I’m amazing.
I read on forums that Dr. Brotzu would publish photos of the results of his lotion on May. What happened ? We are still on May but so far we have seen nothing. Hopefully everything went good and he still plans to publish these pics this month. Fingers crossed!
It’d be nice if admin tried to get in touch with Dr. Brotzu and asked him if he still plans to publish those photos this month.
It might not be good to put much pressure, but if he did say publically that he would do it this month, then we have the right to ask, I guess…
Guy from Brazil Dr bronzu did post pics last week. For AA though not AGA lol don’t you just love how the hair loss industry screws with our patience and emotions. He pulled a christiano with the AA pics lol
Lol I thought the pics he published so far were from months ago. Thats really disapointing.
Unfortunetly, we have to deal with the fact that AGA is just a more complex issue and it will take more time to release any new treatment.
But I heard dr. Brotzu lotion does work for AGA tho.
Guys how would cloning be a cure if it doesn’t repair existing follicles? It will just be like a hair transplant but with no scarring and unlimited hairs.
It would be a cure because it will give you permanent unlimited hairs to give you full thick coverage
Do you think that if a cure was found that men who had been on fin a long time and it was working for them but they rather not be on it, they might come off fin, lose hair, THEN get the cloning treatment?
You hear about guys having follow on hair transplants to catch up with their balding process; might it be necessary for guys to do this with cloning too?
I’m trying to see how it could possibly all work out in the future.
Tsuji’s mathod will give you much better density than HT. And it is less invasive.
Hey Breezy, what’s the product you said it’s gonna be launch in Spain soon?
Kerastem.. @ Svenson Madrid they’re either trialing or preparing to start offering it. They seem to be using the adipose stem cells and inject them in the scalp. Also, you know you can get topical finasteride in Spain?
i didnt know it, thanks man! it’s more effective as a topical or as a pill?
and Kerastem works? where i can see the studio?
Thanks in advance dude
“Some of these photos were introduced in 2016″ strikes me as a bit vague. You can ”introduce” photos to the world taken in 1957, e.g. I’m sure that’s not what he meant but the wording struck me as funny.
As for the number of people who seem to enjoy posting little more than drivel, rants or (the same) silly pessimistic “this will never work” over and over… mightn’t you consider temporary or permanent IP bans? Some posters are just over the top either with hate or anger-filled posts or just utter nonsense that has no place– well, anywhere.
Just a thought, not trying to do your job for you, of course; just seems it would make life easier for everyone.
Does any of you guys hair feel flat thinner and lifeless when it’s cold and damp out. This weather in the mid Atlantic has made my hair feel like it’s completely lifeless and limp. Never had such crap hair. Feels like I have like 10 strands of hair when I put my fingers through it . It’s scary!
Do you have white dots on your nails too?
Nope, no white dots
I have those white dots in two nails on right hand, moving outwards as nails grow, does that mean anything?
Can be a sign of zinc / vit d deficieny which can occurr with too little sun exposure.
Come on Tsuji, work your magic. Clone those human hairs.
Dear admin, (dear fellow-readers,)
as a young sufferer from cicatricial alopecia I wonder whether these new technologies might work in my case. As in this type of alopecia the sebum gland which nourishes the hair follicle is destroyed by inflammation even before the follicles itself is killed off, I am interested whether newly injected/generated follicles might be abe to grow in the affected areas.
As you can possibly imagine this is a question that is very relevant to me and I’d love to hear your thoughts on this issue.
Keep up the great work & best
L I am sorry I do not know. I think there is a presentation on your type of hair loss at this conference and it would be worth contacting those presenters if possible?